It may be a little early in the season yet to make final judgements on Chris Hargreaves and his players, but it must be said that so far they have exceeded expectations and all the signs are for an enjoyable and successful season whether or not we make an immediate return to the Football League.
And this set me thinking about our previous relegation to the conference, when Paul Buckle (who, like CH was in his first job as a football manager) achieved promotion for us within two seasons. Those were exciting times and, as I remember, our goalkeepers were Poke and Bevan, and we had players such as Mansell, Todd, Robertson, Nicholson, Carlisle, Ellis, Wroe, Stevens, Benyon, Carayol, Sills, Hodges, and of course Hargreaves.
Times have moved on and Hargreaves is now our manager and he has put together an exciting young team of which Paul Buckle would be proud. But comparing the squads now and then, not just individual players but the team's style of play, I don't know what others think but I actually believe today's group of players are, by a long way, superior to that of the 2008/9 season and show a more exciting potential for the future.
Some may think I'm a bit premature in saying this but I wanted to take a chance and get in first.. :~D
I think Hargreaves has taken a lot of PB's playing style on in his tactics and playing style! Pacey wingers, box to box captain and hardworking forwards that battle from the front. CH has also adapted to the league remarkabley well in terms of showing the opposition respect and making sure the team keep playing his way even when we have gone behind or been frustrated at not turning chances in to goals, knowing that we have the quality to get a result more often than not. I'm Thinking the games against Lincoln and Woking in particular where we faced periods of pressure and still kept going to grab the points.
Good question and one I and I suspect a few others have already considered so I'm glad someone's asked the question.
To me it's a lot to do with resources and credibility so far. Paul Buckle had incredible resources at his disposal for this level given that the consortium had just taken over, yes he did very well in the first few months, I remember people posting on here saying things like "could it get any better" he was able to attract players that maybe not have come. One of those of course being Chris Hargreaves and we have to thank him for that much, but it went a bit wayward then came "that match" against City and the Trophy final. His dealings with Buster, Carroll Sills, even Chris Hargreaves and then ultimately Bristol Rovers showed his man management skills woefully wanting and obviously that's vital in football.
Chris Hargreaves so far has done the best with what he has and can get, the team now seem to be pulling together and have unity. There's a long long way to go but so far I'm impressed plus I actually think the style of play is a lot different and better, the play is on the ground to feet, opposition players and I have not much idea where the goals might come from, it seems CH biggest problem is going to be keeping those players at Plainmoor, which is a problem I'm delighted he's got and trust that should it come about he will deal with the professionalism he's already demonstrated.
I would say Buckle's team would win. It was full of seasoned pros and probably better in every position bar Luke Young in midfield; what a pairing he and Hargreaves would have been. Chris' team has more potential though.
I think the two first 11s playing would see the current team victorious but Buckle's team had a lot more strength in depth, helped of course by his only having 5 players to begin with. I hope that in 12 months time, with the players CH doesn't want gone and the rest of the squad he does want in place that we will be stronger in every area.
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GarryLeedsGull wrote:I think Hargreaves has taken a lot of PB's playing style on in his tactics and playing style! Pacey wingers, box to box captain and hardworking forwards that battle from the front. CH has also adapted to the league remarkabley well in terms of showing the opposition respect and making sure the team keep playing his way even when we have gone behind or been frustrated at not turning chances in to goals, knowing that we have the quality to get a result more often than not. I'm Thinking the games against Lincoln and Woking in particular where we faced periods of pressure and still kept going to grab the points.
You can't compare Buckle with Hargreaves it's better not said. Just let Hargreaves get on with it.
GarryLeedsGull wrote:I think Hargreaves has taken a lot of PB's playing style on in his tactics and playing style! Pacey wingers, box to box captain and hardworking forwards that battle from the front. CH has also adapted to the league remarkabley well in terms of showing the opposition respect and making sure the team keep playing his way even when we have gone behind or been frustrated at not turning chances in to goals, knowing that we have the quality to get a result more often than not. I'm Thinking the games against Lincoln and Woking in particular where we faced periods of pressure and still kept going to grab the points.
You can't compare Buckle with Hargreaves it's better not said. Just let Hargreaves get on with it.
Let's not get carried away, only 5 games ago it was all doom and gloom on here. We've had a very nice run since then, but there's only one automatic promotion spot up for grabs, and it's not decided in September. The 2009 promotion squad had an experienced spine (Todd, Robertson, Hargreaves, Sills) and plenty of other experienced heads around them who delivered when they needed to (literally in the case of Wayne Carlisle at Wembley). Hargreaves himself as a player in that final week (Barrow away, Burton home and then the play-offs) was an inspiration in the middle of the pitch and drove us over the line. Such were the thin margins, but we were scrapping in those last 2 games of the season to even reach the play-offs. Without the mental strength to come back from behind in both the Barrow and Burton games and take 4 points, there would have been no fairy tale finish at Wembley.
It’s not to put the current squad down, but until they deliver anything, they will just be rated on potential, not achievement. At this stage of their careers and at this stage of the season it’s impossible for them to be judged on anything else, so they’ve done all they can so far.
From 2007-2009 we had a top end budget to go out and sign a dream Conference XI of Buckle's mind. He did that, and we got back into the league within two seasons. If Hargreaves can match that with the 4 trialists earning the same as Karl Hawley then it will be a far greater achievement than Paul Buckle, just because of the resources he was working with.
At the moment we should be excited by the group of players we have assembled here. But for at least the next 8 months the promotion squad of 2009 will be remembered more fondly than the 5 game unbeaten squad of 2014.
Gulliball wrote:
The 2009 promotion squad had an experienced spine (Todd, Robertson, Hargreaves, Sills) and plenty of other experienced heads around them who delivered when they needed to (literally in the case of Wayne Carlisle at Wembley).
Literally, Wayno won more crucial points with his "last minute/time added on" goals than any other player.
And of course not forgetting his assists and how we let the rolling ball continue on its way at his feet in front of him as he took his time to look up/weigh up the options before delivering THAT measured assist.
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To be fair this is an extremely difficult comparison to make. in 2008/9 there were vastly different teams in the conference, we seem to be lucky in one sense so far this season , no stand out team has come to the fore, and there appears to be no cash rich clubs akin to Crawley and Fleetwood. Is the standard of the conference this season greater or lower than 2008/9 ? Can not answer that at the moment, early evidence suggests it may not be as good.
Paul Buckle and Chris Hargreaves have come to our club under an entirely different set of circumstance. Paul Buckle's reign as our manager had an easier start, the club had just been relegated, he took over as said above with 5 players on the books, Paul Buckle had a blank canvass and the financial backing of new owners.
Chris Hargreaves stating the obvious, came to the club in crisis, relegation likely and players earning wages unsustainable for our club, some are still with us, Chris Hargreaves deserves a lot of credit for the style of football we're playing, and he's won me over, I was a harsh critic of CH and rightly so in my view, but looking at the players he's brought in, as said the style of play , and unity and mental strength of this team, it all starts from the manager and coaching staff, ultimately the manager can say and do the right things, but it's the players who have to deliver, so credit to them as well, especially Tonge, Downes and Cruise, who look re-born.
Guliball has called it spot on, nothing is won on September, at the moment we've had a good start but still have a manager and squad with potential and nothing else. Chris Hargreaves in one sense has been lucky, because of the financial position of the club, his hands have been forced some what onto to signing a lot of young players just starting out in their careers, and their ambitious and very hungry for success , Buckle had a few players at the other end of their careers who are less likely to want work that bit harder when the chips are down.
For me, we will not be able to tell until the season starts to draw to a close, CH started the season with the slate wiped clean, this, is his squad, and he's putting his own stamp on it, but he and the squad hasn't been tested yet, and I mean they haven't faced a prolonged run of adverse results, injuries or muddy rough playing surfaces that may not allow to play football in our style.
Just hope if we're still in a great position come the new year, what's left of our board can knuckle down and give CH everything he needs to get us back in the league at the first attempt.
Trojan 67 wrote:
Literally, Wayno won more crucial points with his "last minute/time added on" goals than any other player.
And of course not forgetting his assists and how we let the rolling ball continue on its way at his feet in front of him as he took his time to look up/weigh up the options before delivering THAT measured assist.
A really good thread and an impossible one to answer really. I am not so sure that Buckles team would have beaten the current team actually.
Buckle paid 17k for Chris Todd - a real trier but he was never league standard. He is certainly not up to the standard of any of our three centre halves.
You have got to hand it to Hargreaves - he seems to have spent his money wisely. His "big money" signings which I guess are Young and Bowman look very good.
Macdonald looks a far better player than when he was here last.
But for me it is the likes of the lesser known signings like Richards and O'Archie is where Hargreaves has come up trumps.
O'Archie is the player that I enjoy watching the most. He doesn't look a natural finisher,cannot really head the ball but he is 6'3 of a brooding brick bruiser.
He seems to be the player that the opposition cannot handle - I can only think that Woking's manager had been whinging at the ref before the game started.
You can see he is getting quicker the more games he plays and when the ball does go to him you sort of expect the defenders to be in trouble.
It is easy to look back on previous teams through rose tinted spectacles
Yes they were a crucially important team in terms of stopping the rot, which was no mean feat , but they were hardly all conquering
Remember that in the first Conference season, it was only a very late Tim Sills penalty at home to Northwich Victoria that(perhaps) saved Buckles skin
Even in our 2nd promotion season, we won just half of our games....not sure how many teams can say they got promoted with a 50% win rate?
Whilst this team is undoubtedly young, it has the flair and confidence needed to win matches....so far we have won 60% of our matches, and I would expect that figure to be about the same at the end of the season, giving us 28 wins, whilst Buckles team won 23 in their 2nd season
MidDevon wrote:Even in our 2nd promotion season, we won just half of our games....not sure how many teams can say they got promoted with a 50% win rate?
Us, Exeter, Cambridge & York in the last 7 seasons with 50% (or less) so not exactly that rare
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won more crucial points with his "last minute/time added on" goals than any other player. 
