Liam Prynn's development

[Richinns]

Anybody with a little more insight on the kid?

Seems to be developing into more of a goalscorer this season for the youth team after previous years where he seldom seemed to hit the net.

Is he close to be ready to step up? Perhaps the talent Villa saw is starting to come to fruition now in his development?

Could it be his decision to return and not sign for Villa at that stage turns out to be a blessing for us?

[Behind-the-Gulls]

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/T ... story.html

[Dave]

Supergulls is probably the best one to answer this question. I do not want to seem as if I'm coming across being deliberately negative here , but our youth set is hailed by many, yet it re-started in it's current guise in 2007 , yes 7 years ago and so far has produced nothing but false dawns.

It started 6 years ago 2008 with Ashley Yeoman, 16 given his first professional start by Buckle, he's still at the club but in the past 6 years has managed just 23 appearances many from the bench, then Saul Halpin came through, even got a trial at derby, believe he's playing in the New Zealand Z league now ( Palmer and McKenzie get a mention in dispatches)

Then came Nial Thompson, started like a house on fire, in terms of his on going career as a pro footballer, sadly, and so to speak he's actually turned into a house on fire (also mentioned in dispatches are Sullivan and Hutchings hmmm) Ives looks like he could be the one, but didn't come to our club until 16, so can't claim credit for his early development, but a big tick for who ever spotted and convinced him to come over.

Now on to Liam Prynn, seriously I wish this lad all the luck in the world, I really hope he makes it,in the game, met so many lads who've either come to play in my team or others who left pro academies for one reason or another and gone into other teams, it can be devastating for some, others get over it quickly.

I seriously hope he is a real genuine find for the club, the fact Villa took a look however is completely meaningless, the big clubs scour the length and depth of the country and take on loads of lads each year in the hope that one or more turn into the next big thing, the majority end up in exit trials down the line, I just can not get excited over anything that comes out of our youth set until we start bringing through genuine talent.

[Behind-the-Gulls]

You're never know if they're good enough if they don't get a chance-some won't be up to it; but can't understand our reluctance to give players like Hutchings an opportunity.Tisdale doesn't hesitate to throw the youngsters in and understands they need games to get the experience of the step-up to first team football.Sure there's some talented players amongst our current youth team-but will they get the chance Greavsie said they would when he joined?

[Dave]

Completely agree, just makes me wonder why we've seen a few young players start their careers with us, with so much potential and promise, yet not one of them has developed quite the way our club as hoped, no club can be that unlucky , their has be something wrong with either the coaching, personnel man management or physical development these players are getting from our club.

[supergulls]

I was very surprised when villa came in for Liam as I really couldn't see what they saw in him. He was a forward that never scored goals although he's hold up play with his back to goal was good. But judging by this year he seems to have found his confidence and is hitting the net regularly.

[arcadia]

Supergulls is probably the best one to answer this question. I do not want to seem as if I'm coming across being deliberately negative here , but our youth set is hailed by many, yet it re-started in it's current guise in 2007 , yes 7 years ago and so far has produced nothing but false dawns.

It started 6 years ago 2008 with Ashley Yeoman, 16 given his first professional start by Buckle, he's still at the club but in the past 6 years has managed just 23 appearances many from the bench, then Saul Halpin came through, even got a trial at derby, believe he's playing in the New Zealand Z league now ( Palmer and McKenzie get a mention in dispatches)

Then came Nial Thompson, started like a house on fire, in terms of his on going career as a pro footballer, sadly, and so to speak he's actually turned into a house on fire (also mentioned in dispatches are Sullivan and Hutchings hmmm) Ives looks like he could be the one, but didn't come to our club until 16, so can't claim credit for his early development, but a big tick for who ever spotted and convinced him to come over.

Now on to Liam Prynn, seriously I wish this lad all the luck in the world, I really hope he makes it,in the game, met so many lads who've either come to play in my team or others who left pro academies for one reason or another and gone into other teams, it can be devastating for some, others get over it quickly.

I seriously hope he is a real genuine find for the club, the fact Villa took a look however is completely meaningless, the big clubs scour the length and depth of the country and take on loads of lads each year in the hope that one or more turn into the next big thing, the majority end up in exit trials down the line, I just can not get excited over anything that comes out of our youth set until we start bringing through genuine talent.

Levi Ives is ready to play first team football and we have only played him once. If your good enough
your old enough.

[hector]

Supergulls is probably the best one to answer this question. I do not want to seem as if I'm coming across being deliberately negative here , but our youth set is hailed by many, yet it re-started in it's current guise in 2007 , yes 7 years ago and so far has produced nothing but false dawns.

It started 6 years ago 2008 with Ashley Yeoman, 16 given his first professional start by Buckle, he's still at the club but in the past 6 years has managed just 23 appearances many from the bench, then Saul Halpin came through, even got a trial at derby, believe he's playing in the New Zealand Z league now ( Palmer and McKenzie get a mention in dispatches)

Then came Nial Thompson, started like a house on fire, in terms of his on going career as a pro footballer, sadly, and so to speak he's actually turned into a house on fire (also mentioned in dispatches are Sullivan and Hutchings hmmm) Ives looks like he could be the one, but didn't come to our club until 16, so can't claim credit for his early development, but a big tick for who ever spotted and convinced him to come over.

Now on to Liam Prynn, seriously I wish this lad all the luck in the world, I really hope he makes it,in the game, met so many lads who've either come to play in my team or others who left pro academies for one reason or another and gone into other teams, it can be devastating for some, others get over it quickly.

I seriously hope he is a real genuine find for the club, the fact Villa took a look however is completely meaningless, the big clubs scour the length and depth of the country and take on loads of lads each year in the hope that one or more turn into the next big thing, the majority end up in exit trials down the line, I just can not get excited over anything that comes out of our youth set until we start bringing through genuine talent.

Just how long do you think it takes to produce a conveyor-belt worth of talent?

If you think - 7 years ago - we had no youth system. All of the best talents would have been signed up at the age of 9 or something, so when we started from scratch the only players available were essentially ones Plymouth or Exeter had not signed. So, therefore, the age-group that we probably had an equal chance, as Plymouth/Exeter of getting were primary school children at the time - players who might be 16/17 now - not yet ready for the first team for some time.

[Dave]

If you must know Hector the clubs original U10's have already graduated from the academy, this January the original U9'S will graduate, the age group I believe has Robbie Herrera's nephew in it. But I really was not referring to the academy as many of the players I listed were never in our academy they joined our club as U18's and some like Halpin came from the college link up course .

What I clearly was referring to, was players who've been promoted from our youth team to the first team and floundered, and reasons why every single one of them have failed to deliver on their early promise.

[hector]

If you must know Hector the clubs original U10's have already graduated from the academy, this January the original U9'S will graduate, the age group I believe has Robbie Herrera's nephew in it. But I really was not referring to the academy as many of the players I listed were never in our academy they joined our club as U18's and some like Halpin came from the college link up course .

What I clearly was referring to, was players who've been promoted from our youth team to the first team and floundered, and reasons why every single one of them have failed to deliver on their early promise.

Exactly - the youth team players so far have probably never been of the calibre of say the contemporaries at Exeter City, because essentially, they were 'the best of the rest' when we were starting up again. So it's no wonder they haven't been good enough because they were never going to be.

It's nobody's fault, just an obvious outcome having to start from behind every other local club and only have players other clubs didn't want to choose from.

For example, Daniel Sullivan is from Plymouth and do you think Argyle would have signed youth team players like Harvey and Lecointe if they could have had Sullivan? The obvious inference is that Sullivan wasn't/isn't as good as those players, and as such was available. Torquay had no choice but to sign players that weren't with other clubs, so the obvious conclusion is that they were never going to be good enough, hence the fairly mediocre selection of players that have come through so far. It is so obvious I don't know why anyone is surprised.

It will be the original U'10s and U'9s you refer to, that we would hope would be on a par with the similar age group players at other clubs, and if from this age group onwards we still are not producing the odd player, then there might be a concern but before this group, we were never going to have the calibre of player good enough. Players like Ives (had he been staying) would have been a bonus.

[ferrarilover]

I do wonder if F'rev is on to something. Over the last few years, we've seen a handful of kids, most notably Dan Sulllivan, produce wonders for the youth team, then fail totally to get anywhere near the first XI. Sully, if you recall, scored about fifty million goals in his last season as a kid. Since then, he's played three matches for the first team, all PSFs. If it were just Sully, I'd put it down to an attitude problem. Too much FIFA Manager 2009, not enough extra practice, but it's not. It's also Ash Yeoman, who is the type of guy to do what is needed to get himself into the team. I am curious as to whether, as a club, we don't handle the transition from youth to senior very well?

I know what Hector is saying about cast offs and what not and I agree, but cast offs or not, it's tough to argue that Sully simply lacks talent, when, judging from both his numbers and the performances I saw him give, that simply isn't the case at youth level.

Arcadia, you're the [self-proclaimed :devil: ] expert, you tell me: how wide is the gulf between Torquay United youth and Torquay United pro?

Matt.

[Dave]

Exactly - the youth team players so far have probably never been of the calibre of say the contemporaries at Exeter City, because essentially, they were 'the best of the rest' when we were starting up again. So it's no wonder they haven't been good enough because they were never going to be.

It's nobody's fault, just an obvious outcome having to start from behind every other local club and only have players other clubs didn't want to choose from.

For example, Daniel Sullivan is from Plymouth and do you think Argyle would have signed youth team players like Harvey and Lecointe if they could have had Sullivan? The obvious inference is that Sullivan wasn't/isn't as good as those players, and as such was available. Torquay had no choice but to sign players that weren't with other clubs, so the obvious conclusion is that they were never going to be good enough, hence the fairly mediocre selection of players that have come through so far. It is so obvious I don't know why anyone is surprised.

It will be the original U'10s and U'9s you refer to, that we would hope would be on a par with the similar age group players at other clubs, and if from this age group onwards we still are not producing the odd player, then there might be a concern but before this group, we were never going to have the calibre of player good enough. Players like Ives (had he been staying) would have been a bonus.

Hector, I totally get where your coming from regards cast offs, my focus as said is purely on player's promoted from our youth team to the first team squad, as said in my first post on this thread, not all of them are from the local area, so there not all players rejected from Plymouth and Exeter, some of these players did not spend a single minute in our academy.

But then focusing on your point, I fully understand our club taking on players cast aside from other clubs, the club brings them in, works on their development in a bid to bring them up to the required standard. If, after their 2 year scholar professional contract is up and the player has not reached the required standard, as your perhaps suggesting, then it begs the question, why are we prompting them into our first team squad ? Which forms part of the point I'm making. Ok, the player maybe cheap, might only command £150-200 a week say, but if the player isn't good enough the club just as well take £200 out of their petty cash and burn it each week, because that's what their doing effectively.

It costs on top of these players paltry wages £xxxx's a year on each player development, I would rather there be a proper assessment of these players , and if the view point none of them have reached the standard then promote none, part of me wonder whether the youth department are under pressure to recommend a number of player s for promotion to the first teams quad, either from the board because money is tight, or whether it maybe down to some justifying their existence at the club.

[Dave]

I do wonder if F'rev is on to something. Over the last few years, we've seen a handful of kids, most notably Dan Sulllivan, produce wonders for the youth team, then fail totally to get anywhere near the first XI. Sully, if you recall, scored about fifty million goals in his last season as a kid. Since then, he's played three matches for the first team, all PSFs. If it were just Sully, I'd put it down to an attitude problem. Too much FIFA Manager 2009, not enough extra practice, but it's not. It's also Ash Yeoman, who is the type of guy to do what is needed to get himself into the team. I am curious as to whether, as a club, we don't handle the transition from youth to senior very well?


Matt.

I'm glad someone got where I was coming from. The point of my focus was on Yeoman, Thompson and Halpin (these player all played in League 2 for the club) not just other players who've been promoted to the first team squad, all these players not just the three mentioned were added to the first team squad after a string of top quality performances for the youth team, all were hailed as the next bright young thing by our clubs coaching staff, yet, to date all for the want of a better word have failed to make the grade, and the question is why ?

Yes there is a massive step up from youth professional football, young player at all levels are given full pro contracts because it's believe they have the potential and will develop, but young players need more individual attention, I wonder whether our clubs coaching staff have the time to spend with the younger players, and are the senior players, not that we have many left doing enough to guide the youngsters, young players need lifestyle coaching , may need help coping with the pressure of pro football part of their mental development and may not be developing physically, so guidance with that may be needed.

Often fans on here, and across football make comparisons with players like Rooney and Barkley, players like these are fortunate to reached a point in their mental and physical development at 16, that most players do not reach until their 20, players like these are the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself, and are the wrong comparisons to make with players at any level.

[Dave]

One other thought that I've had which I forgot to mention, does our clubs youth set up have enough respect in the world of professional and semi-professional football, if we look we at clubs like Crewe proof that it possible for clubs well outside the top flight to have a highly respected youth development programme.

And what I mean by that, is weeks and months went by and all of a sudden Thompson goes to Bideford, Sullivan to Hereford club with a great history however look where they are now, and Hutching's goes to Frome, in my humble opinion no where near the right level for these players to develop into potential first team conference premier players, is it a case that we tried to farm these lads out much further up the pyramid and had not takers, hence what seems desperation just to get them games in the clubs they've been sent to.

[hector]

I understand what you mean, but if you up the level of youth team, to discuss say, Liverpool or Manchester United, take a year and look for an FA Youth Cup winning squad, only a handful of those players would have made the Premiership grade. Others, who drop down to say, League 1, 2 or Conference, are only doing the equivalent of ours dropping to Southern/Western Leagues etc. The ratios are probably similar. A local player, who was part of youth teams at Manchester United and Liverpool (and indeed Liverpool's FA Youth Cup winning squad) is Michael Nardiello, who was recently plying his trade at Tiverton Town. A good young player, who, partly because of injury, never made the professional grade but look at his peers in that squad and there aren't really any first-team regulars at Anfield.

It shows how successful Exeter City's scheme is, that they have a squad full of youth graduates, while others they got rid of, like Elliot Freer at FGR and Jake Gosling at Bristol Rovers, have all done well elsewhere.

The point I am making, is that even at the top clubs, the youth team graduates don't always translate to play at the level the club is at, so it figures that the same would be true lower down. Only the cream rise to the top and so for the likes of Sullivan, Yeoman & Halpin pulling up trees at youth team level, is probably because they were up against players who weren't as good and also never made the grade. In the those opposition teams they met, I suspect only a tiny handful of players rose high enough to play at a reasonable level, so Sullivan et al were bound to look good if they had a modicum of talent more.

Like you say, it could be seen as a waste of £200 per week but I guess the feeling is perhaps they need time to develop and maybe do a job as a squad player but I suspect they will be released when contracts finish.