tufc in crisis

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dawlishmatt

tufc in crisis

Post by dawlishmatt »

A lot has been said over the last few years over the rapid decline of our beloved football club. I have supported torquay for over 40 years and have fond memories of fantastic games both home and away. willie browns winner against Burnley at plainmoor to mark gardener's fantastic 25 yard screamer in a match at Bolton wanderers in a league game in the 80s. I also remember attending a meeting on a Monday evening at the old torquay tec at torre between the directors led by Tony boyce and a group of supporters. The meeting was called because the club were about to go bust. Supporters have got to understand that clubs like Torquay can only survive by selling its greatest assets namely its best players. Torquay will never attract large gates needed to survive. As supporters we all have to be realistic. In recent times we,ve had mike bateson as owner who ran the club as a business. Post mr bateson we,ve had the bristows as owners. tragically mr Bristow passed away leaving thea as sole owner. mrs Bristow invested heavily in the club and we enjoyed short term success. Her mistake was that she allowed her heart to rule her head and as a result the short term gain has resulted in long term pain. The next owners, Dean Edwards consortium, as we all know was a total disaster. Again like Mrs Bristow, their hearts were in the right place but they did not have the finance to sustain the club. In January 2017, the board were about to place the club in administration when Clarke Osbourne came to the rescue. Thanks to investment from Mr Osbourne, Kevin Nicholson was able to add more quality players to the squad resulting in the great escape part 2. If we look closely at Mr Osbournes first year, what, if anything ha been achived? Firstly he substantially increased the playing budget for Kevin Nicholson. Players like Josh Gowling with over 400 matches behind him, Ryan Clarke and several others are not on minimum wage. Behind the scenes the club has relaunched the youth academy and a reserve team for next season. The infrastructure of the club is now better than it has been for many years. This season most of the teams away games, the team travel up the day before the match, resulting in overnight hotel stays. Who pays for all of this? the 1,500 who attend games at plainmoor. Clarke Osbourne has on many occasions stated that he knows little about football. That is why he brought Geoff Harrop to the club as general manager. This season with a top ten finish set as a realalistic goal, the manager mr Nicholson was saked after just 1 point from the first 4 games. Throughout this season many mistakes have been made. we have used more players this season than any other team. since mr owers became manager, we have found ourselves bottom of the league and producing unacceptable performances. It is clear that the current plight of our beloved club lies not with Clarke Osbourne but with gary owers who seems completely out of his debth at this level.
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Post by MellowYellow »

Good posting Dawlishmatt - with your 40 years loyal support I sense your hurting like everyone else with the predicament we find ourselves in. You raise two good points: 'On the field' and 'Off the field' antics.

1) 'On the field': I really am trying to give GO the benefit of doubt but I fear you are right that he may be 'out of his depth' and

2) 'Off the field' : Clarke Osborne cash injection into the club appears and quite possibly is beneficial even though we are bottom of the league. Nonetheless I am still sceptical about his ulterior motive and I am still to be convinced that he is, as you insinuate , the 'saviour of the club' rather than just the 'villain of the piece'.
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Post by goody2449 »

dawlishmatt wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 22:44 A lot has been said over the last few years over the rapid decline of our beloved football club. I have supported torquay for over 40 years and have fond memories of fantastic games both home and away. willie browns winner against Burnley at plainmoor to mark gardener's fantastic 25 yard screamer in a match at Bolton wanderers in a league game in the 80s. I also remember attending a meeting on a Monday evening at the old torquay tec at torre between the directors led by Tony boyce and a group of supporters. The meeting was called because the club were about to go bust. Supporters have got to understand that clubs like Torquay can only survive by selling its greatest assets namely its best players. Torquay will never attract large gates needed to survive. As supporters we all have to be realistic. In recent times we,ve had mike bateson as owner who ran the club as a business. Post mr bateson we,ve had the bristows as owners. tragically mr Bristow passed away leaving thea as sole owner. mrs Bristow invested heavily in the club and we enjoyed short term success. Her mistake was that she allowed her heart to rule her head and as a result the short term gain has resulted in long term pain. The next owners, Dean Edwards consortium, as we all know was a total disaster. Again like Mrs Bristow, their hearts were in the right place but they did not have the finance to sustain the club. In January 2017, the board were about to place the club in administration when Clarke Osbourne came to the rescue. Thanks to investment from Mr Osbourne, Kevin Nicholson was able to add more quality players to the squad resulting in the great escape part 2. If we look closely at Mr Osbournes first year, what, if anything ha been achived? Firstly he substantially increased the playing budget for Kevin Nicholson. Players like Josh Gowling with over 400 matches behind him, Ryan Clarke and several others are not on minimum wage. Behind the scenes the club has relaunched the youth academy and a reserve team for next season. The infrastructure of the club is now better than it has been for many years. This season most of the teams away games, the team travel up the day before the match, resulting in overnight hotel stays. Who pays for all of this? the 1,500 who attend games at plainmoor. Clarke Osbourne has on many occasions stated that he knows little about football. That is why he brought Geoff Harrop to the club as general manager. This season with a top ten finish set as a realalistic goal, the manager mr Nicholson was saked after just 1 point from the first 4 games. Throughout this season many mistakes have been made. we have used more players this season than any other team. since mr owers became manager, we have found ourselves bottom of the league and producing unacceptable performances. It is clear that the current plight of our beloved club lies not with Clarke Osbourne but with gary owers who seems completely out of his debth at this level.
:goodpost:
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Post by hector »

Clarke Osborne the saviour of the club? Seriously?

No wonder property developers can come in and slowly suffocate football clubs when you have supporters calling them saviours.

Can’t people see that Osborne is playing the long game? For heaven’s sake.
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Post by Lloyder5 »

hector wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 08:22 Clarke Osborne the saviour of the club? Seriously?

No wonder property developers can come in and slowly suffocate football clubs when you have supporters calling them saviours.

Can’t people see that Osborne is playing the long game? For heaven’s sake.
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Post by DB57 »

Cant wait for Merse to get back from the school run!!
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Post by tufcyellowarmy »

dawlishmatt wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 22:44 A lot has been said over the last few years over the rapid decline of our beloved football club. I have supported torquay for over 40 years and have fond memories of fantastic games both home and away. willie browns winner against Burnley at plainmoor to mark gardener's fantastic 25 yard screamer in a match at Bolton wanderers in a league game in the 80s. I also remember attending a meeting on a Monday evening at the old torquay tec at torre between the directors led by Tony boyce and a group of supporters. The meeting was called because the club were about to go bust. Supporters have got to understand that clubs like Torquay can only survive by selling its greatest assets namely its best players. Torquay will never attract large gates needed to survive. As supporters we all have to be realistic. In recent times we,ve had mike bateson as owner who ran the club as a business. Post mr bateson we,ve had the bristows as owners. tragically mr Bristow passed away leaving thea as sole owner. mrs Bristow invested heavily in the club and we enjoyed short term success. Her mistake was that she allowed her heart to rule her head and as a result the short term gain has resulted in long term pain. The next owners, Dean Edwards consortium, as we all know was a total disaster. Again like Mrs Bristow, their hearts were in the right place but they did not have the finance to sustain the club. In January 2017, the board were about to place the club in administration when Clarke Osbourne came to the rescue. Thanks to investment from Mr Osbourne, Kevin Nicholson was able to add more quality players to the squad resulting in the great escape part 2. If we look closely at Mr Osbournes first year, what, if anything ha been achived? Firstly he substantially increased the playing budget for Kevin Nicholson. Players like Josh Gowling with over 400 matches behind him, Ryan Clarke and several others are not on minimum wage. Behind the scenes the club has relaunched the youth academy and a reserve team for next season. The infrastructure of the club is now better than it has been for many years. This season most of the teams away games, the team travel up the day before the match, resulting in overnight hotel stays. Who pays for all of this? the 1,500 who attend games at plainmoor. Clarke Osbourne has on many occasions stated that he knows little about football. That is why he brought Geoff Harrop to the club as general manager. This season with a top ten finish set as a realalistic goal, the manager mr Nicholson was saked after just 1 point from the first 4 games. Throughout this season many mistakes have been made. we have used more players this season than any other team. since mr owers became manager, we have found ourselves bottom of the league and producing unacceptable performances. It is clear that the current plight of our beloved club lies not with Clarke Osbourne but with gary owers who seems completely out of his debth at this level.
Take cover !!!!!! :lol:
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Post by Plainmoor78 »

If anyone has any doubts as to Clarke osbournes intentions just ask yourself this:
Why does sometime who has no interest in football buy a football club?
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Post by Yorkieandy »

Plainmoor78 wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 09:28 If anyone has any doubts as to Clarke osbournes intentions just ask yourself this:
Why does sometime who has no interest in football buy a football club?
Not just A football club but a non league one.

Buying into a large league 1 club like Blackburn or large Championship club or Prem fair enough you could understand but a non league club that's been struggling for a few years now and is broke? No. A club with limited scope for growth due to it's geographic area which will struggle to attract players even paying over the odds? No.

Take Mansfield Town. They were locked out of Field Mill in 2012 when previous owners just about bankrupted them. They were lucky enough to find a rich buyer who was a local lad and a fan and they are now on the up. Torquay had that lucky break when Thea won the lottery but the chance was wasted as we all know. The key difference is that John Radford at Mansfield is a businessman and Thea wasn't but even so, there aren't profits to be made for John Radford either.

To own a non league soon to be NLS football club in an isolated geographical position you have to be either rich and a real supporter, clinically insane, someone who thought it would be a good idea but then soon realized that it wasn't or after something in order to make the ownership worthwhile.

We know CO is not the first or second. The third is a possibility but then why not try and sell and cut losses as it's clear it will cost him a lot more in the near future? The fourth is the most likely unless anyone can come up with any other suggestions as to why anyone would by a NL football club in crisis.
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Post by Jerry »

Clarke Osborne knows nothing abut football as he readily admits. So you would expect him to appoint the best man for the job as general manager wouldn't you?

But no he appoints his brother-in law who has absolutely no experience as a general manager.

So then obviously he would make his other major appointment the best man for the job?

The man he comes up with just happens to live in the same village as him. A coincidence that the "best man" lives next door or jobs for his mates irrespective of their ability as he doesn't care if they produce results?
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Post by Jerry »

Plainmoor78 wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 09:28 If anyone has any doubts as to Clarke osbournes intentions just ask yourself this:
Why does sometime who has no interest in football buy a football club?
I guess you could maybe make a case for it if he attended games. Maybe he had caught the bug and was enjoying getting involved. But Osborne hasn't been seen at Plainmoor once this season so clearly can have no interest in the club except as a money making opportunity. The only way to make money from a non-league club isn't going to end well for the club!
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Jerry wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 10:06
I guess you could maybe make a case for it if he attended games. Maybe he had caught the bug and was enjoying getting involved. But Osborne hasn't been seen at Plainmoor once this season so clearly can have no interest in the club except as a money making opportunity. The only way to make money from a non-league club isn't going to end well for the club!
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Post by wivelgull »

An alternative would be for the Government to impose a tax on all Premiership clubs, enduring that ALL monies thus collected were distributed to the lower and non-league clubs (according to a strict registration process). There are thousands of clubs, thousands of players, millions of supporters. Why should 22 clubs benefit while the rest starve? (Pure Engels-Marx/Lenin friends).
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Post by merse btpir »

dawlishmatt wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 22:44 Clarke Osbourne has on many occasions stated that he knows little about football. That is why he brought Geoff Harrop to the club as general manager.
No; Geoff Harrop brought his brother-in-law in to underpin his ambition. He alerted and sold him a project and the acquisition was made by stealth by creating a series of capital injections with the shareholding as the co-lateral and it was never repayable unless an alernative buyer could be found. An alternative buyer wasn't found and Osborne acquired the club.

Even when Dave Phillips informed Osborne that he had found such an alternative buyer and Osborne took a back seat reminding all and sundry that there was a debt to repay, he (Phillips) got Pete Masters to act as 'honest broker' and get Osborne back onboard when Phillips' alternative deal fell through. It was a nightmare for Phillips and his fellow directors didn't help matters by insisting on terms that were not acceptable to the lost buyers.

When Osborne made that initial injection he ensured and knew his money was covered as any sensible businessman would and that is the difference between him and Thea Bristow who did not have the business sense or listen to any professional advice on that aspect of her financial input.

dawlishmatt wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 22:44 This season with a top ten finish set as a realistic goal, the manager mr Nicholson was saked after just 1 point from the first 4 games. Throughout this season many mistakes have been made. we have used more players this season than any other team. since mr owers became manager, we have found ourselves bottom of the league and producing unacceptable performances. It is clear that the current plight of our beloved club lies not with Clarke Osbourne but with gary owers who seems completely out of his debth at this level.
With so much deadwood on the payroll courtesy of some dreadful recruiting Owers had no option but to begin with a fire fighting operation and I don't think he can be fairly judged until such time as he is free of that dross with much of it being contracted until the end of NEXT season!

Having said that; his win per game ratio is wholly inadequate and no-one will know that more than him and at most clubs that can only lead to the inevitable sack. It is obvious now as we approach the second game of the month that players just do not want to sign for the club whether it be the league position, the geographical position or (as I suspect) the lack of security beyond the end of his season.

Maybe it is because of tittle-tatle coming out of the club from disillusioned players from amongst that dross that is suffocating the club; who knows. But the utterly and bleedin' obvious fact is that the club is going down due to terrible decision making from the man entrusted by the owner to be the professional head of the football operation both in retaining a manager (Kevin Nicholson) after the end of last season who he clearly had no confidence in; the delay in appointing his successor and even in doing the dastardly deed without having his replacement in place in the first place.

Only an idiot sacks a manager without having his replacement in place and contracted, ready to go immediately!
Last edited by merse btpir on 10 Jan 2018, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Southampton Gull »

It had nothing to do with him having confidence in the manager and was all about wanting to force his will on someone who bucked at the idea. What kind of idiot bellows out his manager in front of other members of staff and demand that he shuts up someone who is insulting him on a fans forum.

Harrop is a bloody idiot and as long as he's making the critical decisions at the club we're fcuked.
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