OK, as those of us that we're there today it s as clear as day that we have major problems and without change we WILL undoubtedly be relegated this season - the prospect of that is as close to oblivion as you could imagine for TUFC - the idea that we could actually be successful as a part time club ( for that is surely what we would be) is unthinkable, in realit I just don't think it would work anyway at that level.
At this stage of the season, we still have a chance of saving ourselves but time IS fast running out and the current board need to realise that before it is too late! The club has got themselves into this perilous position and it needs to mak every possible effort to try and get itself out of trouble before it is too late.
Staring with the Manager, whether his selection was the right one or not (personally speaking it was the wrong choice at the wrong time - not withstanding the fact that I do actually think Nico could well become a decent Manager eventually) , matters not now as the reality is that we are probably stuck with him now anyway for the duration of this campaign.
The squad - far, far too bloated with players who quite simply are not up to the required standard - every effort should be made to trim the squad, wherever possible, of players (and there are plenty) who are just not of the required standard.
What's needed - the priority should be to improve the spine of the team. Priority number one - an experienced goalkeeper - pretty obvious one in my book and yet it is a position that we have been weak in for the latest two seasons and more!!! But nothing seems to be done about it!!!!
Secondly, we need a "new" Aaron Downes - whilst MacDonald and Smith have not let us down, they lack the experience and we are in desperate need of an older head to organise the centre of our defence. It is a simple fact that we have let in far, far, too many goals to be anywhere near to competitive this season - at the moment we appear to need to score four of five goals just to have any chance of winning a game this Eason - simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!!!!!
Central midfield remains a problem - we simply lack quality there - of course we are missing Luke Young massively - but we can't afford to wait until he is back and available as it may well be too late by then.
Strikers - I am actually less concerned in this area as I think that the likes of Fairhurst, Marsh and ( the quite impressive today) Wright give us a reasonable chance with the lies of Fisher and (the rather unimpressive today) Campion as back up - goes us some decen options.
The Board - need to ACT NOW or step aside! We DESPERATELY need additional investment NOW - if they are unalble to provide it then they need to do the honourable thing and step aside, if there is indeed ANYONE out there who is prepared to invest in TUFC. Uotimately EVERY effort should be made by the current board to try and attract new money - otherwise I fear we are doomed! Without an. Outside investor,then maybe the time has come to hand over to TUST as a last resort?
Ultimately we have to try and do everything to try and stay in this League - if we get relegated at the end of this season, then make no mistake we are well and truly f****d.
What needs to happen ...
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nickbrod
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- Favourite player: Robin Stubbs
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Agree with CP. If we go down, which is pretty certain given our current form then that's the end of TUFC. There's no way the club can be full time in National South and there is no way any player will be part-time. So if we go down then that's the end.
Nico for all his positive comments is way out of his depth. Plus if the club has no money to bring in even loan players then as supporters we might as well accept the inevitable.
Interesting that Steve Tully and Wayne Carlisle were watching today plus Paul Compton. At least Tully is learning his trade at Truro.
Seem to think the loan window closes this week. We need a keeper who's got experience and who can command his six yard box. Surely the current Board - only one? (Dave Phillips) can see what we see.
These are truly dire times.
Nico for all his positive comments is way out of his depth. Plus if the club has no money to bring in even loan players then as supporters we might as well accept the inevitable.
Interesting that Steve Tully and Wayne Carlisle were watching today plus Paul Compton. At least Tully is learning his trade at Truro.
Seem to think the loan window closes this week. We need a keeper who's got experience and who can command his six yard box. Surely the current Board - only one? (Dave Phillips) can see what we see.
These are truly dire times.
His Chris, is was good to catch up with you, Dutchgull after the game yesterday,me and friend only went up to the nest for a one for the road, never meant to get involved in such a chin wag 
I pretty much agree with everything said above. For me personally it's not too late to save our season and avoid relegation, 4 points off safety in November, there is a lot of water to flow under the bridge in this season to come, however, before anyone says it, I'm acutely aware this situation can and will spiral completely out of control if things do not change, and the team could easily find themselves cut completely adrift by January the 1st.
We know the club isn't flushed with cash, so we can't change all 11 players, it's easy for me to say I've not put any money in, purley because I don't have it to give, but right now the board do have to look at it, and see if there is any more money that can be found.
Job one for me is Kevin Nicholson, Kevin please for the sake of sanity take yourself out of the starting line up, get yourself up into the stands and get an overview as to what's happening on the pitch, you can't do that from left back, Smith or Butler there.
Again this is easier said than done, but when in general we talk about the spine of the team, agreed, for me 1x goalkeeper, 1 x centre back (both experienced mobile and imposing) 1 x central midfielder who can take the game by the scruff of the neck, and a striker who knows where the goal is, if we can just get half way towards this, preferably at the back as priority, the club has a chance of escaping this situation, failure to do anything, and it is over.
I pretty much agree with everything said above. For me personally it's not too late to save our season and avoid relegation, 4 points off safety in November, there is a lot of water to flow under the bridge in this season to come, however, before anyone says it, I'm acutely aware this situation can and will spiral completely out of control if things do not change, and the team could easily find themselves cut completely adrift by January the 1st.
We know the club isn't flushed with cash, so we can't change all 11 players, it's easy for me to say I've not put any money in, purley because I don't have it to give, but right now the board do have to look at it, and see if there is any more money that can be found.
Job one for me is Kevin Nicholson, Kevin please for the sake of sanity take yourself out of the starting line up, get yourself up into the stands and get an overview as to what's happening on the pitch, you can't do that from left back, Smith or Butler there.
Again this is easier said than done, but when in general we talk about the spine of the team, agreed, for me 1x goalkeeper, 1 x centre back (both experienced mobile and imposing) 1 x central midfielder who can take the game by the scruff of the neck, and a striker who knows where the goal is, if we can just get half way towards this, preferably at the back as priority, the club has a chance of escaping this situation, failure to do anything, and it is over.
Formerly known as forevertufc
Yes looking for a positive I agree with a lot of this. The two key positions for me are Goalkeeper and centre half. I am actually dubious about how good Macdonald actually is, as he seems to be constantly out of position.
The problem is though - how can we get new players in, when we are playing a western league player in Gerring in our team. We simply won't compete in this league with players of this standard.
Tyrone Marsh returns soon, Fairhurst could be a plus if he ever gets fit, and Carmichael is back. I forgot about the Kidderminster loanee who seemed to do alright last week before he went off and perhaps its encouraging that Andre Wright did ok when he came on yesterday.
With more competition in midfield perhaps Butler can be played at left back.
I have not seen some of the players so maybe difficult to comment but reports seem to suggest that Heslop is terrible everytime he plays and it seems Campion isn't the answer either.
However unless the problems at the back are addressed its all irrelevant anyway.
The problem is though - how can we get new players in, when we are playing a western league player in Gerring in our team. We simply won't compete in this league with players of this standard.
Tyrone Marsh returns soon, Fairhurst could be a plus if he ever gets fit, and Carmichael is back. I forgot about the Kidderminster loanee who seemed to do alright last week before he went off and perhaps its encouraging that Andre Wright did ok when he came on yesterday.
With more competition in midfield perhaps Butler can be played at left back.
I have not seen some of the players so maybe difficult to comment but reports seem to suggest that Heslop is terrible everytime he plays and it seems Campion isn't the answer either.
However unless the problems at the back are addressed its all irrelevant anyway.
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davidcaldwell123
- On the Bench
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If you know what you are doing you can set up most teams to be better organised, you play a system that suits the strengths of the players and work on a pattern of play on how you play offensively and defensively within the system, in preparation for games you will need to tweak the pattern to be more defensive or offensive depending on the circumstances, you can also do this during a game depending on the current state of play. Having a flexible system that suits the squad is key to consistency, this is the foundation of team building.
Systems like 4-2-3-1 have become very common as they are flexible, its essentially at any one time 6 defending and 4 attacking, you channel play into the two players in front of the back four to break up play, when you win the ball, offensively you have options to move the ball out of the danger area, into general attacking play.
Having a consistent distance between the units makes it difficult for teams to play through you, key to winning the ball and applying pressure is your closing down strategy and this should be fully drilled into the team, when and how to close down, you can do it higher up, but the back four need to squeeze the game higher or deeper and surrender possession and close as units, do this with a trigger point so everyone knows when to squeeze play, example" a certain distance the opposition plays into creates the trigger for the units to close down", or a trigger "when the striker goes to the man with the ball all the units close down to apply pressure and win the ball back.
Its important you condense play when you don't have the ball and open play up when you have the ball, although it matters what system you play, the principals are the same.
Players need to be fit to operate a high intensity closing down game, players need to be drilled at training to understand the system and their roles and responsibilities, players need to stick to the system and pattern of play, as even if it goes slightly wrong during a game, you always have a reference point to identify where things are going wrong to get them back on track, its better than everyone playing off the cuff, this leads to greater disorganisation and generally results in individual blame being apportioned, mistakes are made well up the pitch prior to the more visible ones being made, its not a game of blame, its a game of players and units working together for the benefit of the team.
Once you have a system and a pattern of play that reflects the positives of your team and they are used to it, push the tempo to create higher intensity offensive attacking routines, this will support quicker breaks without exposing yourself through slower build ups, it will also put a greater level of pressure on the opposition.
Although taking all the above into consideration its important the players understand the importance of the basics of defending, holding the ball up, work ethic, discipline, concentration as s0me examples. "do the basics well".
From experience I have played in teams in similar positions, lacking confidence, cant buy a win, no luck, heard t all before.
In football we learn and improve by replicating situations, you don't want too many surprises so you drill your teams to be ready for anything.
I would be drilling the above day in and day out till the players understood the team strategy inside and out.
Football development is a journey you have to take by applying best practice and experience, you will improve players, units and teams if you have the right strategy, if you don't you will huff and puff and in the end someone will blow your house down!
Kevin is a good guy and like me, he has his own level of experience in the game, he will have his own strategy and many variants will effect it as time goes on, but Kevin is the only person that can make this work, so lets all get behind him and the team.
Systems like 4-2-3-1 have become very common as they are flexible, its essentially at any one time 6 defending and 4 attacking, you channel play into the two players in front of the back four to break up play, when you win the ball, offensively you have options to move the ball out of the danger area, into general attacking play.
Having a consistent distance between the units makes it difficult for teams to play through you, key to winning the ball and applying pressure is your closing down strategy and this should be fully drilled into the team, when and how to close down, you can do it higher up, but the back four need to squeeze the game higher or deeper and surrender possession and close as units, do this with a trigger point so everyone knows when to squeeze play, example" a certain distance the opposition plays into creates the trigger for the units to close down", or a trigger "when the striker goes to the man with the ball all the units close down to apply pressure and win the ball back.
Its important you condense play when you don't have the ball and open play up when you have the ball, although it matters what system you play, the principals are the same.
Players need to be fit to operate a high intensity closing down game, players need to be drilled at training to understand the system and their roles and responsibilities, players need to stick to the system and pattern of play, as even if it goes slightly wrong during a game, you always have a reference point to identify where things are going wrong to get them back on track, its better than everyone playing off the cuff, this leads to greater disorganisation and generally results in individual blame being apportioned, mistakes are made well up the pitch prior to the more visible ones being made, its not a game of blame, its a game of players and units working together for the benefit of the team.
Once you have a system and a pattern of play that reflects the positives of your team and they are used to it, push the tempo to create higher intensity offensive attacking routines, this will support quicker breaks without exposing yourself through slower build ups, it will also put a greater level of pressure on the opposition.
Although taking all the above into consideration its important the players understand the importance of the basics of defending, holding the ball up, work ethic, discipline, concentration as s0me examples. "do the basics well".
From experience I have played in teams in similar positions, lacking confidence, cant buy a win, no luck, heard t all before.
In football we learn and improve by replicating situations, you don't want too many surprises so you drill your teams to be ready for anything.
I would be drilling the above day in and day out till the players understood the team strategy inside and out.
Football development is a journey you have to take by applying best practice and experience, you will improve players, units and teams if you have the right strategy, if you don't you will huff and puff and in the end someone will blow your house down!
Kevin is a good guy and like me, he has his own level of experience in the game, he will have his own strategy and many variants will effect it as time goes on, but Kevin is the only person that can make this work, so lets all get behind him and the team.
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nickbrod
- Top Scorer
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- Joined: 19 Feb 2011, 08:48
- Favourite player: Robin Stubbs
- Watches from: Family Stand
According to the OS we're playing Bideford on Tuesday evening as a friendly. More likely getting us used to the level of football that's around the corner.
Also on the OS our new media wizard tells us we can have a hospitality SUIT at Forest Green, I'll have mine from M&S!
Also on the OS our new media wizard tells us we can have a hospitality SUIT at Forest Green, I'll have mine from M&S!
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arcadia
- Plays for Country
- Posts: 2168
- Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 17:48
- Favourite player: Jake Andrews
- Location: Preston Sands
What everyone is saying is very straight forward but none of us know how much is in the budget an I think Nicholson knows as much about the game as any of us but he has not got the experience of being in a situation like we are in.
It's great to say we need a goalkeeper, centre -half midfielder but they don't grow on trees at £150.00 each. Nichos budget was already spent when he came in so his hands are tied.
We do need to be very basic until confidence picks up because players with no confidence make mistakes. What we seen in the second half was a lot better and confidence did return once we had scored the players are not believing they can win you can see it in their faces. If Nicho can be in the box the next game I think it would be to his and our advantage as the substitutions were forced when we could have had longer with Wright on the pitch why the hell he did not start I don't know.
It's great to say we need a goalkeeper, centre -half midfielder but they don't grow on trees at £150.00 each. Nichos budget was already spent when he came in so his hands are tied.
We do need to be very basic until confidence picks up because players with no confidence make mistakes. What we seen in the second half was a lot better and confidence did return once we had scored the players are not believing they can win you can see it in their faces. If Nicho can be in the box the next game I think it would be to his and our advantage as the substitutions were forced when we could have had longer with Wright on the pitch why the hell he did not start I don't know.
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KeithMalone
- Reserve Player
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What needs to happen is the club needs to develop alternate revenue streams. At present football isn't paying for the club's existence. Talk of relegation being the end of the club in my eyes is slightly erroneous, as relegation would potentially mean moving to an artificial pitch (I think Nicholson already mentioned that they weren't the worst things in the world). This pitch could then be utilised for a wide variety of sports and thus bring more revenue into the club and enable it's survival.
In the cold light of day: Torquay United can no longer be a successful football club in terms of achievement as the landscape of "the beautiful game" has changed and is now completely reliant on money, you can thank Murdoch and Sky for that change. Torquay United can however continue to exist as a business which pays for some people's livelihood, which in truth is at least something.
Note the opinions above are based purely on economical considerations and not my personal preferences. It is this way of thinking under Bateson however unpopular that kept this club afloat for many years and maybe at this darkest of hours needs to be revisited.
In the cold light of day: Torquay United can no longer be a successful football club in terms of achievement as the landscape of "the beautiful game" has changed and is now completely reliant on money, you can thank Murdoch and Sky for that change. Torquay United can however continue to exist as a business which pays for some people's livelihood, which in truth is at least something.
Note the opinions above are based purely on economical considerations and not my personal preferences. It is this way of thinking under Bateson however unpopular that kept this club afloat for many years and maybe at this darkest of hours needs to be revisited.
Yes, you're correct. However, that's why I said the board need to sit down have a look at it and see if any additional money can be found, alternatively have a scout around the South division or Southern premier leagues to see what in terms of players are available at minimal cost, there are good players at that level (just look at where at least two of the England squad started their careers) who will play with more hunger, heart and self belief than 9 passengers we had on the park yesterday.arcadia wrote:It's great to say we need a goalkeeper, centre -half midfielder but they don't grow on trees at £150.00 each. Nichos budget was already spent when he came in so his hands are tied.
Formerly known as forevertufc
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arcadia
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I agree but don't you think that they've done this already and with my experience with Chairman you get the job as manager thinking you can get the club out of trouble on the budget available not keep asking for more money.
We could all manage a side with a large budget but thats what's got us into this situation. The art of managing is knowing the standard your playing in and contacts to get good players.If you've got good players you've got very little managing to do. Nicho should have assessed the team before he took the job and the Chairman should have asked these questions when taking him on.
I wish to point out that I do not think he should resign because I think with a little bit of confidence and discipline in the side he can turn it around when all the players are available. The biggest problem is the confidence and you cannot buy this as you seen yesterday it's very fragile but when it started to get better the team performed.
We do need to play narrow though and not take gambles as I've said discipline means doing the right things on the pitch for each other. Throw ins are not put inside in your own half till the confidence is back there are tricks of the trade that you teach the players to get an advantage. We cannot give the ball away like we did first half we need to keep the ball after having a bit of pressure not just hoof the ball away.
I was in this situation in a semi-pro club and it takes a lot of hard work getting the players to believe in themselves but it only takes one result and then we went on a 16 games run undefeated this was building the confidence and Nicho will see the rewards for his hard work if he can get the players to do the right things but yesterday was a step backwards.
Throwing money at the problem does not work with confidence that has to be done from within the group. Once you can see the light and we get a couple of results that is the time to add to the squad.
We could all manage a side with a large budget but thats what's got us into this situation. The art of managing is knowing the standard your playing in and contacts to get good players.If you've got good players you've got very little managing to do. Nicho should have assessed the team before he took the job and the Chairman should have asked these questions when taking him on.
I wish to point out that I do not think he should resign because I think with a little bit of confidence and discipline in the side he can turn it around when all the players are available. The biggest problem is the confidence and you cannot buy this as you seen yesterday it's very fragile but when it started to get better the team performed.
We do need to play narrow though and not take gambles as I've said discipline means doing the right things on the pitch for each other. Throw ins are not put inside in your own half till the confidence is back there are tricks of the trade that you teach the players to get an advantage. We cannot give the ball away like we did first half we need to keep the ball after having a bit of pressure not just hoof the ball away.
I was in this situation in a semi-pro club and it takes a lot of hard work getting the players to believe in themselves but it only takes one result and then we went on a 16 games run undefeated this was building the confidence and Nicho will see the rewards for his hard work if he can get the players to do the right things but yesterday was a step backwards.
Throwing money at the problem does not work with confidence that has to be done from within the group. Once you can see the light and we get a couple of results that is the time to add to the squad.
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portugull
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Arcadia your comment about a 16 game undefeated run reminded me how 4 years ago we lost at home to Gillingham 2-5 and then under Martin Ling had a run of 16 or more games undefeated. It is all about setting up the team in such a way that we are hard to break down.
The second Lincoln goal yesterday showed me that teams must love playing us at present as we were all over the place.
I know Man Utd is not a good comparison but look how LVG has made them very hard to score against.
I think Kevin has got to work out his very best team and play a system that keeps us tight and play the same team injuries permitting.
Best back four; Berry McDonald Smith Butler
Midfield Murembedzi Richards Verma Carmichael
Marsh and Wright.
Instruct the back 4 to concentrate on defending and keeping the right shape.
Instruct the midfield to concentrate on assisting the back four first and make sure there is NO hoofball which merely returns the ball to the opposition.
Play the ball on the floor like we did for 20 minutes before the crucial third goal yesterday which killed a good fightback.
I have not given up hope but we have to start winning soon.
The second Lincoln goal yesterday showed me that teams must love playing us at present as we were all over the place.
I know Man Utd is not a good comparison but look how LVG has made them very hard to score against.
I think Kevin has got to work out his very best team and play a system that keeps us tight and play the same team injuries permitting.
Best back four; Berry McDonald Smith Butler
Midfield Murembedzi Richards Verma Carmichael
Marsh and Wright.
Instruct the back 4 to concentrate on defending and keeping the right shape.
Instruct the midfield to concentrate on assisting the back four first and make sure there is NO hoofball which merely returns the ball to the opposition.
Play the ball on the floor like we did for 20 minutes before the crucial third goal yesterday which killed a good fightback.
I have not given up hope but we have to start winning soon.
This idea might be worth exploring - what if we play a 4-3-3 similar to the one used by Martin Ling during the 2011-12 season.
The idea involves a midfield trio of Courtney Richards (ball winner/holding player), Bayan Fenwick (box-to-box player)and Josh Carmichael as the playmaker in the absence of Luke Young.
Lavercombe retains his place in goal, with a back four left to right of Durrell Berry, Angus MacDonald, Nathan Smith and Dan Butler with the front three of Fairhurst playing as a central striker with Wright and Murombedzi in support.
It's worth a try on Tuesday against Bideford if nothing else.
The idea involves a midfield trio of Courtney Richards (ball winner/holding player), Bayan Fenwick (box-to-box player)and Josh Carmichael as the playmaker in the absence of Luke Young.
Lavercombe retains his place in goal, with a back four left to right of Durrell Berry, Angus MacDonald, Nathan Smith and Dan Butler with the front three of Fairhurst playing as a central striker with Wright and Murombedzi in support.
It's worth a try on Tuesday against Bideford if nothing else.
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arcadia
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When Nicho took over the side improved because he tightened things up and things got a bit better but we've gone backwards why only the manager knows. I went to Basingstoke on the strength of the improvement but we;ve gone backwards. We've got to get back to being solid and work from there.portugull wrote:Arcadia your comment about a 16 game undefeated run reminded me how 4 years ago we lost at home to Gillingham 2-5 and then under Martin Ling had a run of 16 or more games undefeated. It is all about setting up the team in such a way that we are hard to break down.
The second Lincoln goal yesterday showed me that teams must love playing us at present as we were all over the place.
I know Man Utd is not a good comparison but look how LVG has made them very hard to score against.
I think Kevin has got to work out his very best team and play a system that keeps us tight and play the same team injuries permitting.
Best back four; Berry McDonald Smith Butler
Midfield Murembedzi Richards Verma Carmichael
Marsh and Wright.
Instruct the back 4 to concentrate on defending and keeping the right shape.
Instruct the midfield to concentrate on assisting the back four first and make sure there is NO hoofball which merely returns the ball to the opposition.
Play the ball on the floor like we did for 20 minutes before the crucial third goal yesterday which killed a good fightback.
I have not given up hope but we have to start winning soon.
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Burnhamgull
- Top Scorer
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- Joined: 05 Sep 2010, 08:11
- Location: Torquay
I'd experiment with the 4-2-3-1 formation suggested by DaveCaldwell.
Berry, McDonald, Smith, Butler
Richards, Fenwick
Shepherd, Briscoe, Wright
Fairhurst
Wright did well when he came on yesterday so I'd play him on the left of the attacking midfield three but he could switch with Shep throughout the game.
Berry, McDonald, Smith, Butler
Richards, Fenwick
Shepherd, Briscoe, Wright
Fairhurst
Wright did well when he came on yesterday so I'd play him on the left of the attacking midfield three but he could switch with Shep throughout the game.
TUFC never fails to let its fanbase down.
27/08/18 - Time to step back from this shambles and focus on things in life that make me happy. TUFC doesn't.
27/08/18 - Time to step back from this shambles and focus on things in life that make me happy. TUFC doesn't.
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arcadia
- Plays for Country
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- Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 17:48
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- Location: Preston Sands
Your right we've got to get solid and Wright has to play and I do like Charmicle if that how you spell it. The important thing is the players have to work harder as a team when we have not got the ball press the opposition and make them make mistakes. When we lose the ball get back in the shape.Burnhamgull wrote:I'd experiment with the 4-2-3-1 formation suggested by DaveCaldwell.
Berry, McDonald, Smith, Butler
Richards, Fenwick
Shepherd, Briscoe, Wright
Fairhurst
Wright did well when he came on yesterday so I'd play him on the left of the attacking midfield three but he could switch with Shep throughout the game.
Your team looks balanced but Briscoe is out of my radar now as I don't think he contributes enough. I might have put Wright there and Charmichle on the side so that Wright could push up to support Fairhurst.
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