Money Money Money

portugull · Post by **portugull** » 27 Apr 2016, 13:22

We all know that Money makes the world go round.

My understanding when the current Board took over, and I stand to be corrected, was that in theory the new Board acquired the shares for £1 and Thea Bristow very generously wrote off some £3m which she had injected into the club.

Within weeks of the new Board taking over 3 Directors resigned. No one really knows how much each member of the new Board put into the club but I do know for a fact that any new potential director was asked for £30,000 if he or she wished to join the Board.

All we know now is that Gaming International have agreed to buy the club for an undisclosed figure and to inject investment into the club which is so desperately needed.

The question in everybodys mind must surely be are the financial arrangements for the sale to Gaming International in the best interests of the future of Torquay United. Have the Board taken appropriate professional advice? The Board owe it to the fans, and in particular to Thea Bristow, that they have agreed a sale on terms which are in the best interests of the future of our football club.

I would like to see our Chairman David Phillips make a detailed statement on the Terms of the deal in the knowledge that many many fans are worried that we are being sold down the river. I am sorry if this is blunt but the reality is we as fans are worried.

Wellswood · Post by **Wellswood** » 27 Apr 2016, 15:46

We as fans are worried? speak for yourself, I'm not saying it's impossible that things can go wrong but I don't see any reason to be negative about what's happening at the club at the moment.

Philips clearly cares about the club, as does Steve Breed, this constant questioning as to whether they have done their research etc is ridiculous, of course they have. Our Chairman was stood down near the dugout throughout the game on Saturday, speaking to the players and Nicho, it's clear their is a feelgood factor both on and off the pitch.

Sometimes, good things do happen, and people do things for the right reasons. Instead of looking at this negatively, why not be optimistic, and have some patience and wait for the details to be announced, the club have communicated with the fans very well over the last few months, there no reason to suspect anyones motivations or intentions at this stage.

Post by **Dave** » 27 Apr 2016, 17:36

Maybe we're guilty of thinking that the likes of Dave Phillips and Steve Breed are laymen playing at running a football club, both are business men in their own right, and will have known how do all the relevant checks, like proof of funding, and so on.

Post by **Gulliball** » 27 Apr 2016, 18:04

Surely the concerns are around the ground? Our new owners have repeatedly sold stadiums upon taking control in order to get a return on their investment - they are property developers by trade after all. Bristol Rovers are still waiting for their new ground. They have already announced their plans for the 'Riviera Stadium'. Now obviously they have worked out how they are going to make money from this deal, but will we benefit? We currently have a very nice ground for the size of our club, with all 4 stands redeveloped comparatively recently. It doesn't need any work done on it, but we have new owners desperate for the deal to go ahead.

If they can explain their plan, how the club will benefit, what guarantees there are for the club etc, then great. However to date nothing has been said about this, and the only signs we've had are that they don't have any interest in the playing side of the club. Every fan should have concerns right now, and should do until otherwise assured.

portugull · Post by **portugull** » 27 Apr 2016, 20:46

Wellswood I am speaking for myself when I express my concerns.

Gulliball has expressed the situation very clearly.

If you have no concerns then I think, with respect, you are being naive.

leetufc · Post by **leetufc** » 27 Apr 2016, 20:50

Surely any deal on the stadium would take a considerable amount of time to get through, given that the club does not own the freehold - for the owners to be interested in the ground there must surely be something involved with the council as well so they have ensured they would get any planning permission should they wish to develop?

However Plainmoor is not high demand location - so how much value does it actually hold?

On the stadium front, whilst I agree we have a good ground for our level and it currently more than suits our needs size wise - the location is a major drawback. I genuinely believe a stadium located close to the willows with adequate parking and far better transport links (the new road, a new train station, a number of bus routes) would enable the club to draw in a greater regular attendance. Whether this ever comes to fruition and would be done in the best interests of the club is another matter.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Apr 2016, 06:44

Money Money Money - RUINS FOOTBALL

ROADRUNNER · Post by **ROADRUNNER** » 28 Apr 2016, 07:57

any ground move wouldnt happen for a couple of seasons, but clubs do move and we aint any different. i dont think its a bad thing to be honest, the club would surely benefit, and i believe the current board have been up for this as well.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Apr 2016, 08:27

1 - Plainmoor can easily cope with attendances in this league and league 2 - No need to move
2 - Its owned by the council so no new owner cant sell it and line their pockets
3 - Its one of if not the best ground in this league and better than many in League 2
4- Thea put a lot of money into Bristows bench and wrote off the debt, its disrespectful to chuck all that away as she saved this club
5- Why move, I just don't see any reason why its necessary, ONLY TO LINE SOMEONES GRUBBY POCKETS
6 - Plainmoor (not launa windows) has a whole wealth of history, its the heart of this club
7 THE CLUB WONT BENEFIT, DONT BELEIVE ALL THAT CR*P! SOME GREEDY DEVELOPER WILL THOUGH AND THEY WILL SPIN IT LIKE ANYTHING TO PERSUADE YOU ITS BEST FOR THE CLUB, YEAH RIGHT!

gullintwoplaces · Post by **gullintwoplaces** » 28 Apr 2016, 09:02

Neal wrote:1 - Plainmoor can easily cope with attendances in this league and league 2 - No need to move
2 - Its owned by the council so no new owner cant sell it and line their pockets
3 - Its one of if not the best ground in this league and better than many in League 2
4- Thea put a lot of money into Bristows bench and wrote off the debt, its disrespectful to chuck all that away as she saved this club
5- Why move, I just don't see any reason why its necessary, ONLY TO LINE SOMEONES GRUBBY POCKETS
6 - Plainmoor (not launa windows) has a whole wealth of history, its the heart of this club
7 THE CLUB WONT BENEFIT, DONT BELEIVE ALL THAT CR*P! SOME GREEDY DEVELOPER WILL THOUGH AND THEY WILL SPIN IT LIKE ANYTHING TO PERSUADE YOU ITS BEST FOR THE CLUB, YEAH RIGHT!

I have a lot of sympathy with what you say, I really do. I love Plainmoor, been going there for 50 years. My uncle played for Torquay at Plainmoor many times (long time ago now). I also am very suspicious of property developers, greed incarnate.

However, this club has no long term future unless it has secure financial backing and develops other income streams, unless we find another lottery winner (unlikely!). IF the club moves to a new stadium with better facilities and, above all, IF it acquires the potential to make more income then it have no choice. I just hope that the new owners enable the club to achieve this, I make no assumption that they will, as plenty of other clubs have been bled dry by developers. It is very unsettling, and like you I don't want a developer to make money whilst screwing over the club and its fans. A win-win is possible, I have no problem with a developer making money provided that the club are secure and thriving, but I am still sceptical that this will happen.

Kit_robin · Post by **Kit_robin** » 28 Apr 2016, 10:41

Neal wrote:1 - Plainmoor can easily cope with attendances in this league and league 2 - No need to move
2 - Its owned by the council so no new owner cant sell it and line their pockets
3 - Its one of if not the best ground in this league and better than many in League 2
4- Thea put a lot of money into Bristows bench and wrote off the debt, its disrespectful to chuck all that away as she saved this club
5- Why move, I just don't see any reason why its necessary, ONLY TO LINE SOMEONES GRUBBY POCKETS
6 - Plainmoor (not launa windows) has a whole wealth of history, its the heart of this club
7 THE CLUB WONT BENEFIT, DONT BELEIVE ALL THAT CR*P! SOME GREEDY DEVELOPER WILL THOUGH AND THEY WILL SPIN IT LIKE ANYTHING TO PERSUADE YOU ITS BEST FOR THE CLUB, YEAH RIGHT!

I also have some sympathy for what you say, but unfortunately this thinking will mean we will forever be on the national league.

In purely football terms you are mostly correct. Plainmoor is a good stadium by national league standards and can currently cope with the number of fans we have (although there is normally a new fan boom with new stadia).

Unfortunately though this is where it ends. Every year more and more clubs are either improving their stadia or moving altogether. This is about more than the facilities for watching football, this is to increase revenue all over to fund the football club itself.

The football league is littered with clubs who once struggled but have improved their fortunes because of a move. Shrewsbury, Doncaster were bottom of fourth division, occasional conference clubs, whose new stadiums have turned them into champ/L1 or L1/L2 clubs. Morecambe, Burton are examples of small clubs who through new grounds have broken into the football league. There are countless others like Rotherham, bigger clubs achieving their potential, and Barnet, smaller clubs able to compete at a higher level because of ancillary income.

For me, I would be more worried if the new owners DONT plan to move us to a new stadium. They are a business with no connection to Torquay, they obviously want to make a return on their investment somewhere. If they don't move us, the only way to do that would be to defund and destroy the football club. If, however, they plan to do what they are doing at the Swindon speedway track - building new stands on new land, increasing the money making ability of the sports team whilst simultaneously building houses in neighbouring land to make money for themselves - then I will agree that has the potential to be beneficial for both parties. It has its pitfalls of course, but it's the only way I can see that both Torquay United and gaming international benefit. Every other option I can think of benefits gaming international and screws Torquay United.

But the main point is this, in reply to your list; Torquay United need to move if we want to compete at the top end of league 2/1 in the next 10 years. More and more clubs are improving their ability to make money, if we stand still and do nothing we do not keep on a or with them, we watch countless teams once our equals disappear into the distance, whilst we continue to knock around with Braintree and Dover.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 28 Apr 2016, 11:26

I have massive sympathy with what Neal says. P!ainmoor is so much more than just a football ground, it represents the whole history of football in Torquay from before the formation of the present club in 1921. However I cannot see where the future lays in the present situation. The present board do not have the financial clout to mount a realistic promotion push. A community buy out would probably leave us a permanent non league club which wouldn't do the club's history any service either since it was founded (ie the club that merged Torquay Town and Babbacombe) with the intention of obtaining football league status. Our present is imperfect and we need to change our future, the Gaming International venture is a massive gamble which may or may not work out, but at the moment there is no other viable option.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 28 Apr 2016, 11:26

I have massive sympathy with what Neal says. P!ainmoor is so much more than just a football ground, it represents the whole history of football in Torquay from before the formation of the present club in 1921. However I cannot see where the future lays in the present situation. The present board do not have the financial clout to mount a realistic promotion push. A community buy out would probably leave us a permanent non league club which wouldn't do the club's history any service either since it was founded (ie the club that merged Torquay Town and Babbacombe) with the intention of obtaining football league status. Our present is imperfect and we need to change our future, the Gaming International venture is a massive gamble which may or may not work out, but at the moment there is no other viable option.

Wellswood · Post by **Wellswood** » 28 Apr 2016, 11:46

"Wellswood I am speaking for myself when I express my concerns.

Gulliball has expressed the situation very clearly.

If you have no concerns then I think, with respect, you are being naive."

I disagree, I'm not being naÃ¯ve, I can conceive of the possibility that this could all go t*ts up. However, based on logic, ie, Philips and Breed have saved this club this season, they are fans of the club, they have put a lot of time, effort and stress into righting the ship, so, do we think they did this in order to sell us out for a fast buck, ruining the good they've done and the potential legacy they can leave behind? Or do we think that maybe, just maybe, being businessmen, that maybe, just maybe they have enough about them to ensure the future of the club is in good hands and that the new owners have a plan and the means to take the club forward. Philips has already come out and intimated that we as fans will be very pleased with the plans the new owners have. Again, would he say this and lie to us?

If you are correct and we are in grave danger, at this stage, what do you propose should be done? My stance is, at this stage, we have no reason to be or think negatively, we have every reason to be optimistic. Time will tell and if things were to go as you suspect then we will have the opportunity to deal with it then, right now, we don't and there is no apparent need to panic.

The existing stadium is fit for purpose but is also limited in its use and not in the best location. A new stadium would breathe new life and revenue generation opportunities into the club. The Plainmoor site is hardly prime real estate land so I seriously doubt the new owners are in this to make a quick buck from building flats on Plainmoor. They are a group with a lot of experience of managing stadia, creating new revenue streams outside of the primary use, this is what we need, no?

Portugull, is the glass half empty or half full?

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Apr 2016, 12:29

I take on board all the points above. But..... IF you want to develop at the willows or Babbacombe, say build houses etc why do you need a football club? Barrat and Wimpy build houses without a football club.

I also take the points that Philips and Breed would not sell out, I have faith in them. But these property developers are very clever, will say anything to make a buck, AND I DONT TRUST THEM!

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