Who will be here next season in the NLS?

Post by **SuperNickyWroe** » 14 Apr 2018, 23:04

Dazza wrote: ↑14 Apr 2018, 21:42 Of that 1500 today over 100 were Halifax fans- however that's a story in itself perhaps. It's far more than would be expected given the distance involved and their troubled years over the past decade+. It suggests to me anyway that once a fan many probably do remain perversely loyal until the day they die.

I think that with regard to the Halifax fans - and many others I would surmise - an away game at Torquay is a weekend away by the sea opportunity!

Also, there are numerous occasions where we have take 100+ fans to away games - including those 'oop north including this season....

So seemingly we are also perversely loyal too!!

merse btpir · Post by **merse btpir** » 15 Apr 2018, 07:52

The stats tells us that we took 145 to The Shay when we played up there out of a gate of some 1,700 two hundred more than attended Plainmoor yesterday: so pretty much par for the course from clubs with pretty similar sized followings.

If I know Northern fans as I think I do, I bet some of them had been saving all season to have a weekend in Torquay after doing cartwheels of delight that their game here would be in April and not January!

I hope they had a good night last night!

westyorkshiregull · Post by **westyorkshiregull** » 15 Apr 2018, 07:58

Talking of away fans attendances. Stating the obvious I know but I assume there 're not many Halifax fans in the West country but we seem to have a lot of fans all over the place. I know 2 within 5 miles of my house in deep west Yorkshire.
London gulls and northern gulls have a good scattering.
Not to diminish the great effort of west country gulls though who travel the length of country.

Wish I could afford to go to every away game , I love away games more than home ones. Can't beat it

Modgull · Post by **Modgull** » 15 Apr 2018, 08:30

I am out - I will not pay to watch NLS football. I am hurting too much and fed up with the constant pitying looks and comments of my Argyle friends. Since I won''t change allegiance - this means I am through with football. I will return to watching my local rugby club - Ivybridge - for whom I played for many years.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » 15 Apr 2018, 08:34

westyorkshiregull wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 07:58 Talking of away fans attendances. Stating the obvious I know but I assume there 're not many Halifax fans in the West country but we seem to have a lot of fans all over the place. I know 2 within 5 miles of my house in deep west Yorkshire.
London gulls and northern gulls have a good scattering.
Not to diminish the great effort of west country gulls though who travel the length of country.

Wish I could afford to go to every away game , I love away games more than home ones. Can't beat it

I know a Halifax fan in Totnes.

stefano · Post by **stefano** » 15 Apr 2018, 09:36

Modgull wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 08:30 .....this means I am through with football. I will return to watching my local rugby club - Ivybridge - for whom I played for many years.

Excellent club - no doubt will see you there on occasions.

gullpower · Post by **gullpower** » 15 Apr 2018, 09:37

As long as there's a team called Torquay United at Plainmoor I'll support it. However, I won't be buying a season ticket if we are in the NLS. If it's obvious that CO and Harrop are still intent on running the club into the ground I will only go to away games. Some may say that this is playing into their hands but I believe the only hope for the club is fan ownership. Unfortunately that almost certainly involves the club going bust.

Modgull · Post by **Modgull** » 15 Apr 2018, 11:41

stefano wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 09:36 Excellent club - no doubt will see you there on occasions.

Absolutely!

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 15 Apr 2018, 12:22

Love the second to last option...........only the big games.

IMO only the following set of circumstances should be enough for fans to go next season:

1. Osborne sells up and pisses off.

2. Who he sells to happen to miraculously be forward thinking businessmen with an interest in getting the club back into the football league and who will openly communicate and engage with fans and transform it from a near dead entity to a vibrant, progressive, competitive and ultimately financially stable football club.

(I DO KNOW THAT BOTH THE ABOVE AREN'T POSSIBLE BUT I'LL GO ON)

3. The new owner sacks Owers, Kuhl, Hedges, Harrop and any other malingerers from the staff and replaces them professionally with individuals of the expected calibre fans expect, not only for the level the club is at but for the level where the club wants to get to.

4. Most of the players already here who are under contract get them paid up, kick them up the ringpiece and wave goodbye. A fresh slate is required with footballers of the required mentality for the job in hand.

5. Ticket prices come down to a level that reflects the league the club are playing in, the standard of opposition played and with an extra reduction thrown in for existing ST holders to give them something back for their loyalty.

6. A review of the club and how it operates from commercial, to fan engagement to catering to everything else gets a total overhaul over the summer and new and fresh ideas and strategies are implemented.

Basically the club needs the above to have a clean slate without actually going bust and reforming and it also needs the above to survive and prosper.

It also needs the above to bring fans back and get the UNITED back into Torquay United.

Of course none of the above will happen so go next season if you really must but don't say you weren't aware of the situation.

What will happen is that Osborne will still be here and still ignore everyone. The man and his sidekick who eased the club into regional football will oversee the summer recruitment and take the club into a NLS basement battle. The club will just be run the same with fans ignored and taken for granted and nobody really interested in changing things other than the Trust. The ticket prices WILL reflect the alarming number of fans stupid enough to pay it therefore it will be higher than expected and probably come just as a well crafted press release from CO emerges about the club being competitive this season and we're aiming for promotion and we aren't rubbish anymore blah blah and fans will believe this.

Basically i think it's safe to assume that next season will be identical to this but just in a crapper league but as we've seen on this and other threads, everyone has their own threshold as to when it's time to start sticking up for yourself and exercising your right not to be made a fool of.

In the total absence of any serious protests or fight against the owners which IMO would make fans feel empowered and feel like they are at least trying to make a difference then the only other way of sticking up for your self respect is to go the other way and jack it in and go and do something else.

I'm not saying that protesting would change anything but at any other football club it would be the very first thing that fans would try, as we've seen at other clubs. There aren't too many who would put up with what Torquay fans have and just keep calm and carry on. I guess nothing would change either way. Whether you protest or just keep going to games in silence - neither will uproot Osborne as we know but it's about personal pride here and i'm staggered that nobody wants to seriously stick up for theirs. Even experiments with monkeys by animal scientists show that when they are trapped in a hopeless situation they at least try to exert some control over their environment by performing certain behaviours / noises etc so why not footy fans who have no control about what is happening at their club? If you are trapped and have no control over what is happening then you either put up a fight until you accept the limitations of your circumstances cannot be changed or you win out or you give up and / or withdraw.

To not even fight though goes against nature.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 15 Apr 2018, 13:40

Another question. I am concerned even if CO does decide to sell i feel he won't sell to a fans group so is it possible in business for a fans group (such as the TUST) to persuade a businessman to buy the club from GI and then straightaway that businessman sells to the fans group (obviously for a profit otherwise it wouldn't be worth their while) in a pre-arranged contract? Therefore CO thinks he is selling to a genuine businessman but in reality that businessman is just the go between to obtain the club and then sell it to the fans.

Teigngull · Post by **Teigngull** » 15 Apr 2018, 14:51

The one thing that really narks me more than anything, is the fact, we were we warned by Merse & Soton Dave on this forum, & Haldon rambler on BTPIR, about the business shenanigans of CO & the self serving antics of GH & yet there are still some stupid tossers out there who refuse to believe our illustrious owner & his cohorts are here for no other benefit but the football club.
TUFC are being killed off stealthily by smoke & mirrors but no magical cure is forth coming.
Take a look on youtube at former football grounds , it's shocking viewing, but the reality is TUFC & plainmoor will be added sooner than we all think.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 15 Apr 2018, 16:23

There are two sides of the fence here and also fence sitters.

There are fans who are aware of what is happening at the club and are angry and frustrated but see no point in non attendance as they claim this will hurt the club even further and make it easier for CO to wind the club down should that be his intention. I think this is a reasonable viewpoint and just as valid as mine which differs.

There are fans who are aware of what is happening at the club and who deal with the same set of circumstances in a different way by non attendance or who WILL deal with it this way next season. This is my side of the fence.

There are fans who sit on the fence oblivious to everything and whilst i'll stop short of using the terms that Teigngull does (although i fully appreciate the frustration), i think it's best to write these fans off as a lost cause.

So these two sets of factions are what divide the club and it's fanbase primarily and no particular course of action is necessarily the right one.

However i do feel that one thing is missing from the matchday experience of both which could make all the difference. Not necessarily in terms of saving the club but bringing the fans closer together for the same cause. One thing which Torquay United fans don't really excel at tbh. The majority of times Torquay fans are at each others throats arguing and belittling, even the mild mannered amongst us.

The one clear thing is that whether we attend or stay away - the football club will continue to slide down the football pyramid. Under continued CO ownership it's a dead duck. Under new owners it's still a massive task to get back to where the club once was from where it will be next season thanks to the owners and the management entrusted to ensure this didn't happen.

As i've always said, the fact that i haven't attended a game for quite some time has had no bearing on the club's league position or the future security of the club. I think it's important to remember this going forward that ATTENDING OR NOT HAS NO BEARING OR INFLUENCE ON THE CLUB'S LEAUE POSITION.

The stay aways will have a pop at fans for continuing to attend and thus making it financially easier for CO to pass the time running the club into the ground, especially when attending games makes no difference to the outcome of results or the way the club is headed.
The stay aways may claim that by cutting off revenue then it costs CO more to run the club and that might make him reconsider his position and whether it is all really worth it and sell up.

The ones who attend will have a pop at the stay aways for helping CO to wind the club down even quicker as by their logic, less support and less interest makes it easier for CO to convince the council that football in Torquay has no future and thus playing into his hands.

It's a bleddy mess. Really it is.

So. The one thing that everyone can do as mutually agreed compromise is PROTEST.

PROTEST. STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES AND YOUR RIGHTS AS A TORQUAY UNITED SUPPORTER.

The ones who attend all the time and criticize the stay aways will say why bother as it won't change anything and yes, i agree.

The ones who stay away may criticize the ones who go every week for not showing enough fight and anger against what is happening at the club whilst at the same time they could ague that the very fact you've chosen to stay away indicates a lack of fight too. Part of the reason they stopped going i think is because the apathy and inertia of the fanbase to just accept what is with a whimper isn't acceptable to some and they feel powerless to convince them to protest so they just give up. Certainly the case for me.

What is for sure is that BOTH sides of the fence are angry and annoyed as to what is happening at the club but they have chosen different ways in which to deal with this based on their thinking patterns and specific way of looking at the particular problem.

The particular problem is Clarke Osborne and therefore is everyone going to start letting him and the world know this?

It probably won't achieve anything at all i accept that but it will prove to the footballing community that Torquay fans are just as **** off with their owners as Coventry are with SISU, as Blackpool are with the Oystons and so and so forth and will show people that they aren't just going to stand back and be treated in this way. Let alone their football club be treated in this way.

Next season should be one of persistent and co-ordinated protests at every game home and away and for those who say it won't help results on the pitch with all the negativity i say this:

Has your support helped on the pitch these past 5 years? Would the club be in a worse position if everyone had been protesting every week for 5 years? THE ANSWER IS NO.

Has protesting hindered Blackpool? What? The very same Blackpool who won the play off final last season and are now in league 1 you mean?

Has protesting hindered Coventry? What? You mean the same Coventry who will be in the league 2 play offs this season?

No matter what side of the fence you are on.

PROTEST!!!!

Post by **Dave** » 15 Apr 2018, 16:41

Yorkieandy wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 16:23 Has protesting hindered Blackpool? What? The very same Blackpool who won the play off final last season and are now in league 1 you mean?

However, Owen Oysten still owns Blackpool.

Post by **Dave** » 15 Apr 2018, 16:43

As I've always maintained, while there's a club to support, I will support it. Won't have a season ticket, will attend most games next season.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 15 Apr 2018, 17:04

forevertufc wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 16:41 However, Owen Oysten still owns Blackpool.

You've totally missed the point Dave.

I'm saying that protesting is unlikely to make CO have a sudden pang of conscience nor is it likely to change anything at all.

It's more about having some sort of constructive outlet for fans who feel marginalised to vent their frustration. Whether it changes anything at the club is another matter entirely.

I'm talking about giving fans a voice and the opportunities to have those voices heard rather than expecting any specific outcome.

I feel going forward that this is important and will at the very least bring a sense of togetherness for the fans instead of even further devisive arguments about who is right and wrong.

The time for arguing about who is right and who is wrong has long gone and it will always be split. The time now is to find positive things to get involved with in order to reconcile this huge chasm that has opened up between sets of supporters based on their differences.

Any supporter has to feel like they are making a difference even if actually they are not which i think is why a lot of fans have gradually given up over time as they feel even making the effort to attend is pointless as it makes no difference.

Your view is that you are a supporter and in the truest sense of the word you support the football club regardless and I respect that. Of course I'm sure you'd like things to be better at the club.

Other people may approach the same situation differently and it's time now that these differences were understood by each side , respected and finally put to bed and everyone start to work through together how best to proceed.

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