Ling v Buckle

[Southampton Gull]

Negotiations were done BEFORE the play-offs. I'm told it was considered that Buckle be placed on gardening leave but this option wasn't utilised, probably due to costs etc.

If you want to credit him that's fine, I was just pointing out my opinion is different and giving reasons for it being so. The "timing" as you put it only arose due to some Rovers fans getting wind of it and coming here looking for clues to verify what they'd heard.

If you factor in why certain players were not offered contracts and where they ended up it gives a somewhat different picture to what some fans think. I'm not trying to be critical of your opinion, just stating some things to give you an inkling into what went on.

Also, Gloster paints a picture of harmony through being a "friend" of Mansell but I wouldn't expect a Club Captain to respond any other way towards a fan, would you? Other players will give you a totally different account to that offered by Gloster and you only need look at the fallouts at Bristol Rovers already this season to see the real truth.

[Dave]

I have to be honest here, i did back Buckle at times to the hilt, and at times did not believe he fell out with players as some suggested, i was also amongst the camp that did not want to see Buckle leave.

I have since been lucky enough to speak to a director, who would not go into to much detail but gave some clue's, some one linked to the club via the media, and an ex-player, iam now in no doubt Buckle shat on our club from a great hieght, and as one said, it's nice to see the players smiling again and not hiding behind closed door's incase Buckle might be around, so these player fall out's that i refused to believe in the past , may well be true, who's telling the truth, who just saying what they think is the right thing, i know who i believe and it aint Buckle.

I wont credit Buckle with signing Robbo as he played quite a few match's the season before, not sure whether it was on loan however it was before Buckle arrived at the club, and i am sure Ellis was on loan with us before Buckle arrived aswell again not sure on that one.

I refuse to give Buckle any credit what so ever for our current position, it's not the players he signed it's what he did with them.

Mansell a right back under Buckle , not only restored to the midfield also given more of an attacking role, currently enjoying his best season ever.

Oastler, Warnock confused, he was sure he sent us an up and coming young right back, Buckle saw him as a bit part central defensive midfielder, ling listen's to Warnock, Oastler now one of the first names on the team sheet.

Billy Kee a winger, Stevens and Lathrope re-born under Ling, i could go on and on, one thing is for sure i am now glad Rovers saved us from further torture under buckle.

Martin Ling's yellow army

[Trojan 67]

I always thought that Buckle's "game plan" was play Premiership manager with Conference/League 2 players. I kid you not rolling on the floor smilie man.

Why do that ? To show recruiters that he was able to manage in the Premiership when his time came. Stop it smilie man, I kid you not.

[yellow]

I seem to recall that he spent a short time at Old Trafford under the wing of the ‘Grand Old Master’.

As usual it went to his head.

Adaptability and flexibility are great when you have the resources and the personnel. We don’t have that luxury. I can’t help thinking that it contributed to the reason why we ended up with so many players playing out of position. Funny what Billy Kee can do when played as a striker at Burton and Manse is a different (unshackled?) player this year.

Buckle was trying to run before he could walk. Unfortunately for him he has tripped over at Bristol Rovers before he even got into his stride.

He may learn the lesson, and he may not. IMHO he is arrogant enough to ignore it.

[portugull]

Southampton you are close to what goes on at Plainmoor and I fully accept your poits which are well made.
Correct me if I am wrong but because PB was under contract to us the Board, when approached by the Rovers Board,could have said we have a chance of promotion to League 1 via the play offs and for this reason we wish to defer any negotiations until after the play offs.
I still to this day cannot understand why the Board acted as they did unless they thought £70k compensation and appointing a new manager was a better option than promotion. Would welcome your view.

[Southampton Gull]

Yes the Board could have said that. I said at the time that it was common knowledge that the Board didn't want us promoted. I'm sure most people still disbelieve that but it was relayed to enough people by different members of the Board and enough times for it to be almost common knowledge. I'm sure they had their reasons, I'm sure they were probably even right in terms of protecting the financial future of the Club and I've come to accept it over time even if it drove me mad when I was first made aware of it. We were effectively bankrolled out of the BSP by Paul Bristow and it annoys me when Paul Buckle gets the credit that should be given to Mr Bristow. We have to repay that, it's only fair that his family are repaid for the commitment he gave us. His wife has continued that financial support by helping to fund the building of the new grandstand and also will need repaying. Because of this the spending had to stop, the financial commitments had to be limited, that's why this season brought about a drop in the playing budget. Buckle knew it and knew it early enough to apply in good time for the Rovers job. In hindsight I'd say that £70k was a good result for us. I was told by someone who should know, but I can't confirm it any other way, that this was somewhat more than we were originally offered and a certain party held firm in what he wanted for us to agree to part company with Buckle. Congratulations to him for that. I know one thing, Alex Rowe was instrumental in bringing the new manager here and I reckon we would be much better with someone like him at the helm than the current Captain of the ship. Nice guy maybe, just not a good leader. Still, he allowed Andrew Candy to take a position at the Club so I congratulate him for that, He's proved to be a very very good link betwen fans and club which is extremely important for a small club like ours.

[Trojan 67]

This talk about directors not wanting promotion is ringing alarm bells. What about this season ? What about next season and the season after that ? What are the thoughts of the management and players ? What are the thoughts of the supporters?

Financial wellbeing is one thing, stagnation is another. Stagnation will eventually result in relegation. Our gates may not increase by much if we get promoted and costs will certainly rise, but to state privately/publicly that the club doesn't want promotion will have the effect of wiping 500/1000 of the gate, maybe not at a stroke, but certainly over a period of time.

I went through this nonsense back in the late '60s/early '70s, and it will be straight back down the A38 for me to a club that does want promotion, even if it is from the BSP. :Oops:

[royalgull]

I'd imagine that was due to the majority of our money being spent on the new stand/training ground. League 1 is a very northern league which would have increased costs immensely, our gates would have been similar to what they are now (due to teams bringing even poorer away numbers on the whole + reduced capacity) coupled with the increased costs of players wages and clamour from fans to show 'ambition' aka spend cash you don't have on 'League 1 players'.

i could see why the board would have been concerned about costs. Once the new stand is up and we have a base to move forward I'd imagine they'd all be thinking lets try and get promoted.

[Trojan 67]

As much as I would like to see us push for the playoffs and finish the season in a playoff place, I see us finishing midtable. This isn't to do with lack of "ambition" or costs, but due to a lack of strength in depth in the playing squad.

If a mystic had said to me at season beginning, would you take right now 9th place, 2pts outside of the playoffs on 38pts in the first week of January 2012, I would've snapped their hand off.

That for me is the difference between Ling/Buckle.

One with greater resources had a side constantly "over achieving" (utter b*ll*cks) while the greater one on reduced resources has the pwoper nous to get his side performing to its full potential.

[Father Jack]

One with greater resources had a side constantly "over achieving" (utter b*ll*cks) while the greater one on reduced resources has the pwoper nous to get his side performing to its full potential.

You appear to have forgotten the budget reductions that occured in the last two seasons. It was well publicised that the budget was cut mid season in our first season back in the league (hence the need to move players on before bringing in replacements for them), and then again (presumably for the CE's pay off) last season. Anyone that thinks the previous manager had more than a "mid table" budget in terms of what the other clubs in the league were spending is well wide of the mark. In that respect, to reach the playoff final last season compared to the likes of Rotherham, Shrewsbury, Oxford, Bradford etc and what they could spend on the player budget, we were "punching above our weight" (to coin a phrase), just as Accy Stanley were. Have a look at how many teams last season had an income stream supported by an over 4000 average attendance last season http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/D ... 26,00.html and then tell me we didnt do better than we had a right to expect in comparison.

[Trojan 67]

You appear to have forgotten the budget reductions that occured in the last two seasons.Tell me we didnt do better than we had a right to expect in comparison.

Fryer Tuck, you appear to have forgotten the further reduction in budget this season.

Now, tell me we aren't doing better in comparison.

The one with the greater resources was bigging himself up, the greater one on reduced resources is doing his job simply and effectively.

[Father Jack]

Fryer Tuck, you appear to have forgotten the further reduction in budget this season.

Now, tell me we aren't doing better in comparison.

The one with the greater resources was bigging himself up, the greater one on reduced resources is doing his job simply and effectively.

How much has the budget for the season been reduced by? Enough to sign more players on contracts than we had the start of last season.
Doing better by comparison will be judged at the end of the season.
Will we make the playoffs? Will we go one better than last season? Hopefully yes, but if not, then the history book will show how well each manager has performed.

[Dave]

To me i dont not think it matter's one bit what player budget Paul Buckle was working on when he first took over as our manager, or how much it was reduced by or when, i dont even think it matter's if Martin Ling is working off a smaller budget as TUFC manager than Paul Buckle ever did.

The player budget that Paul Buckle would have been working on at Bristol Rovers would have been some way bigger than he ever had here at Torquay, and massive compared to what Martin Ling is working on here now at Torquay.

If you then look at not only the results and team performances that we have enjoyed this season but also the way Martin Ling has gone about his conducting his buisness as Tufc Manager, and then compare that to the the results and performances and the way Buckle conducted himself at Bristol Rovers, all roads lead back to there still being only one winner.

Martin Ling every time.

[Father Jack]

To me i dont not think it matter's one bit what player budget Paul Buckle was working on when he first took over as our manager, or how much it was reduced by or when, i dont even think it matter's if Martin Ling is working off a smaller budget as TUFC manager than Paul Buckle ever did.

The player budget that Paul Buckle would have been working on at Bristol Rovers would have been some way bigger than he ever had here at Torquay, and massive compared to what Martin Ling is working on here now at Torquay.

If you then look at not only the results and team performances that we have enjoyed this season but also the way Martin Ling has gone about his conducting his buisness as Tufc Manager, and then compare that to the the results and performances and the way Buckle conducted himself at Bristol Rovers, all roads lead back to there still being only one winner.

Martin Ling every time.

Comparing the budgets at different clubs for a manager is fatuous at best. We were discussing the budget at Torquay in case it slipped your attention, not Bristol Rovers.

[Trojan 67]

How much has the budget for the season been reduced by? Enough to sign more players on contracts than we had the start of last season.
Doing better by comparison will be judged at the end of the season.
Will we make the playoffs? Will we go one better than last season? Hopefully yes, but if not, then the history book will show how well each manager has performed.

There's a blind spot in your reasoning and you haven't addressed the question.


A loanee is deemed to be on a "contract", albeit a temporary one, and how many of those did we have last season ? I might well be wrong, but didn't we at one point have more loanees than we could fit into a matchday squad ?

Dinger is keeping his powder under cover and dry, unlike the previous manager who pissed it in the wind and got lucky, to a point.