Chris Hargreaves' v Paul Buckle's Conference teams

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 26 Sep 2014, 13:30

Tough question to answer. A squad is a fluid concept. What I can do is offer a snapshot. I've chosen a Paul Buckle Conference era programme at random (the first one I came across). It's from 12th August 2008 vs Woking. The squad listed on the back contains 22 players.

Poke
Brough
Nicho
Woods
Robbo
Toddy
Manse
Sills
Bennerz
D'Sane
Wroe
Ty Thompson
Jesus
Hodges
Green
Wayno
Muzzy
Stevens
Rice
Steve Adams
Ellis
Raiff Gwinnett (of whom I have absolutely no memory)

Today's squad, according to Soccerbase:

Seabright
Tongue
Cruise
Downer
Pearce
Briscoe
Sam Chaney
Jake Hutchings
Gus
Harding
Youngy
Ajala
Cameron
Niall Thompson
Courtney Richards
Bowman
Chaps
Yeoman
Bennerz
Josh Wakefield (loanee)
Sully
Duane
Ives

So, that's 23 for Jesus and 22 for Bucks. I think Bucks had more "usable" players. None of that squad was either untried youngster or dead wood. Chris is contending with a Benyon who couldn't fight his way into our U9s, Chaney is injured and only 6 months old and a couple of others who don't seem capable of doing a job even at this level.
Buckle also used many, MANY more loanees than Chris will. He has plenty at the end of last season, but that's always the case in a losing side. It was genuinely impressive that Bucks, especially given his well documented lack of interpersonal skills, managed to mould so many loanees into decent players and get them to sustain their levels in order to get us up.

Matt.

Dockers Pal · Post by **Dockers Pal** » 26 Sep 2014, 14:17

Thanks for doing that.

You're right about 'usable' players. From Buckle's squad I didn't remember Adams or Gwinnett. I have a feeling that Gwinnett was an early junior pro?

I wondered whether this had an influence on things like the current issue with overnight stays.

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 26 Sep 2014, 15:34

Possibly. I was going to suggest in my last post on the overnight subject, that we allowed the starting XI to go up the night before with Jesus, while everyone else travelled on the day, but thought that might be a bit silly for a few different reasons.

Stevie Adams was known as The Ghoul, on account of his being so white. He was at Argyle, then went to Sheffield (Wednesday, I think), but couldn't cut it at that level, so came to us. Hardly played and probably gave up the game once we released him. Fun fact, I bought his old car from his Plymouth days. A lovely 1800cc Focus with all the toys. Shifted it about 9 months later for a Golf GTi Turbo in Karmann green. I digress.

I Googled Gwinnett and it seems that he is, as you suspected, a mere child. If the internet is accurate, he's on the cusp of being 24 now and plays for Paulton Rovers. They are, I believe, our opponents in the next round of the FA Youth Cup, so it's possible that he'll be making a non-playing return very shortly. For us, he made 4 appearances at CB, getting booked once and doing absolutely nothing else of note.

Matt.

Dockers Pal · Post by **Dockers Pal** » 26 Sep 2014, 16:43

Just a further thought on the comparative finances between the two squads. Hargreaves has quite a few players on League 2 contracts whereas Buckle had hardly any, so Buckle had more parachute money available potentially.

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 26 Sep 2014, 16:56

Dockers Pal wrote:Just a further thought on the comparative finances between the two squads. Hargreaves has quite a few players on League 2 contracts whereas Buckle had hardly any, so Buckle had more parachute money available potentially.

Bucks was given money pretty much as and when he needed it. I'd argue that he has been the most financially backed manager we have had in recent memory.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 26 Sep 2014, 17:13

By comparison, that makes Hargreaves' current achievements even more impressive. We can only hope that when he asks for a little essential financial backing when he needs it, perhaps to enable the team to negotiate the dark, murky, muddy days of winter towards a successful climax to the season, that the club will have the good sense to provide it. Indeed they should already have made plans for such contingencies. The outlay will be more than recovered with a successful team playing good football, promotion, and an extra thousand or two on the gate..

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 26 Sep 2014, 20:03

Scott Brehaut wrote: Bucks was given money pretty much as and when he needed it. I'd argue that he has been the most financially backed manager we have had in recent memory.

I wasn't about for Leroy's L1 side. Do you imagine that Bucks had A) more money outright and B) freer access to whatever money was available?

Matt.

Kit_robin · Post by **Kit_robin** » 26 Sep 2014, 20:20

ferrarilover wrote: I wasn't about for Leroy's L1 side. Do you imagine that Bucks had A) more money outright and B) freer access to whatever money was available?

Matt.

I would bet my house on it.

Dockers Pal · Post by **Dockers Pal** » 26 Sep 2014, 20:30

It shouldn't be but we would suspect Bucks did have those advantages.
Leroy should have benefitted from the larger gates, better TV money and the proceeds of David Grahams transfer, but the players would have expected a pay increase and apart from the transfer in of Leon Constantine I don't recall any other obvious expenditure.
Mike Bateson had great care with the purse strings!!

gurneygibbs23 · Post by **gurneygibbs23** » 26 Sep 2014, 21:36

Martin rice is missing from that list of our curent squad. A right mixed bag of that buckle squad list.
I also recall steve adams being rubbish did nothing in games but jog about. Tyrone thompson I remember was incredible on debut then incredibly poor after.

Leroy got akinfenwA at his best in our league one season and leon constantine for a wasteful 75k. But notthing else to help. I think if the 75 k had gone on better players we'd have stayed up

Kernowgull · Post by **Kernowgull** » 27 Sep 2014, 08:47

The reason Leroy's league one team didn't stay up was threefold. Yes, we did spend 75k on Constantine, but that wasn't until Christmas. Very little other money was spent. We started very slowly if I recall, a great day out at Bristol City on day one where we grabbed a point late on with an Aggy penalty was followed by lots of defeats. We left ourselves with a mountain to climb. But the main reason in my eyes, was that Leroy was either incapable of identifying on unable to attract a decent keeper. We went down on goal difference, and throughout the season used about 10 different keepers. Some an absolute joke, like Gottkalksen. He was awful, then went on the run, and has since been imprissoned for armed burglary!! It was only when we got Marriott towards the end of the season that we started winning consistently.

That last day at Colchester was so frustrating, not because we lost and didnt turn up when all we needed was a point to stay up, not because we won 4 on the bounce to put us in with a chance that year, not because MK Dons scored in the 100th minute against Tranmere who rested players to send us down, but because a decent keeper from the off, or even half a season, and we'd have been comfortable lower mid table.

Still one of my favourite season despite all that. 3 of my best ever away days, Bristol City (1-1) Sheffield Wednesday (2-2, but two up at half time) and Oldham (2-0 win, 600 odd gulls, what an atmosphere!!).

Kernowgull · Post by **Kernowgull** » 27 Sep 2014, 09:07

Just looked it up, 7 keepers that season

Van Heusden and Dearden (both played a big part in our promotion, sadly not good enough at that level)
Bertrand Bossu ( Rubbish)
Ollie Gottkalson (rubbish, then vanished when the police were after him)
Paul Jarvie ( played once, was dreadful, never played again, ginger)
Phil Barnes ( Excellent, looked like we'd stay up, recalled from loan by Sheffield United early)
Andy Marriott( joined in March, we won 13 points from 5 games leading up to the last match, too little too late!!)

Some interesting names on the squad list that season who I had forgotten, and some I barely remember!

We used 35 players in 2004/5 as opposed to 22 in the promotion season the year before!!

Anyone remember Owen Story, Osvaldo Lopes, Bruno Mereilles, Ashley Keane, Zema Abbey, Stuart Noble, Stuart Wardley or Aaron Brown? I don't!!

Dutchgull · Post by **Dutchgull** » 27 Sep 2014, 19:43

"Anyone remember Owen Story, Osvaldo Lopes, Bruno Mereilles, Ashley Keane, Zema Abbey, Stuart Noble, Stuart Wardley or Aaron Brown? I don't!!
Kernowgull

Help, as I do !!

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 27 Sep 2014, 20:04

Kernowgull wrote:
Anyone remember Owen Story, Osvaldo Lopes, Bruno Mereilles, Ashley Keane, Zema Abbey, Stuart Noble, Stuart Wardley or Aaron Brown? I don't!!

Owen Story was a forward - didn't play many (if any) games.
Don't remember Lopes
Mereilles was a midfielder. Played a few games, but didn't set the world alight.
Keane was a midfielder (I think), played half a game....if I remember correctly, he was substituted in the first half after being shit, and was never seen of again
Zema Abbey was a forward. Scored one goal, but didn't play much. His brother (I think it was his brother anyway), Nathan Abbey was a keeper that player for us.
Don't remember Noble or Brown.
Wardley was a midfielder....wanting to say winger, but can't remember.

I'm sure if you googled them all you'd find out a bit more info.

I saw a few more games when we were in Div 1 as I was in the UK quite a bit.

Kernowgull · Post by **Kernowgull** » 27 Sep 2014, 20:33

Just found it bizarre that in our one season at a higher level in my memory, we had so many no mark players. I also saw probably more games that year than any other year, spent most of my student loan and ruined my degree travelling to away games that season, and yet have little to no memory of those players!

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