Gary Owers

[MellowYellow]

Actually no point in getting rid of the Directors Box as according to the Ground Grading for NLS there must be minimum of 16 seats provided for Directors/ with a minimum of 8 seats provided for the visiting club. Might as well give them all to the “Away Directors”, we will never have any directors.

Plus you only need covered seating for a 100 in the NLS, so as Bristows Bench is portable we could dismantle that and flog it, then Osborne could start building his houses and still maintain regional football on a three-sided ground - win-win situation.

[Plainmoor78]

Actually no point in getting rid of the Directors Box as according to the Ground Grading for NLS there must be minimum of 16 seats provided for Directors/ with a minimum of 8 seats provided for the visiting club. Might as well give them all to the “Away Directors”, we will never have any directors.

Plus you only need covered seating for a 100 in the NLS, so as Bristows Bench is portable we could dismantle that and flog it, then Osborne could start building his houses and still maintain regional football on a three-sided ground - win-win situation.

Nice idea about Bristows bench, but unfortunately we would then have to refund the three quarters of a million we got from whichever trust to build it in the first place.

[Gulliball]

I see the latest press release from Gary Owers is that he knows he has to win over a lot of the supporters and vows to do this. I can't help but feel he would be better off with actions rather than words. Yesterday he was away down the tunnel before anyone else, in what was hardly a toxic atmosphere. The players, Kuhl and other staff all received a muted applause, but at least make a token effort.

I am not overall his biggest fan, but Brett Williams came over to the popside after the game, and had to stand there for a few minutes while some fans vented at him, but he stood there and took it all. I imagine he learned a lot more by doing that than running down the tunnel. I know it's not easy when there are 'Owers Out' banners and chants, but you're the manager and that's the environment you're working in. We aren't going to have a new set of supporters next season, so it's those fans you have to win over and you're only going to make a connection with them by fronting up to the criticism and acknowledging it.

The only time we ever hear from our owner, general manager and manager is through official written statements. You're more likely to cross paths with Shergar on a Saturday afternoon at Plainmoor than any of those trio, which is not the way to go at a small, local community club like ours. Whether you liked him or not, the previous manager would always connect with the fans after a game - win, lose or draw and as a result had a connection with the fans that was a huge asset to the club. I doubt it was much fun to make his Saturday night Facebook post after another defeat, having to come up with something new, but he never shirked from that, even when he knew what the response would be. Having seen Owers on Saturday, you can't help but wonder how he will ever have a connection with the fanbase.

His only hope is that we are right up at the top end of the division next season and winning games week after week, which will keep the fans placated. Otherwise, I just don't see how he can survive in the job. Saturday's result took his win % as manager to 26.32%, dropping below Dave Webb's 26.67%. Of the 24 managers to have managed 75 or more games (ie to be there for more than just one full season) only Stuart Morgan (20.83%) has a worse win % than Owers does now.

Nicholson took over in 2015/16 in just a big a mess as Owers did this season. He turned it around and that summer we saw record season ticket sales with Nicholson and MacDonald in the club shop selling them personally. I am going to assume Owers won't make the same offer of his time this summer, so if he wants to win the supporters over then I think he needs to have us right at the top of the league right from August, otherwise I just don't see how he's going to keep this promise any more than the 'we'll be safe by Christmas' promise of six months ago.

[Dave]

I see the latest press release from Gary Owers is that he knows he has to win over a lot of the supporters and vows to do this. I can't help but feel he would be better off with actions rather than words. Yesterday he was away down the tunnel before anyone else, in what was hardly a toxic atmosphere. The players, Kuhl and other staff all received a muted applause, but at least make a token effort.

I was stood just to the family stand side of the half way on the pop as normal, I did see Owers come brielfy into the centre circle and clap the fans , it was short however.

To be fair think he did the right thing, with tensions growing after the final whistle, if Owers had come to close not sure how things would have panned out.

[MellowYellow]

Nice idea about Bristows bench, but unfortunately we would then have to refund the three quarters of a million we got from whichever trust to build it in the first place.

Joking apart, it was the Football Stadia Improvement Fund - funded by the Premier League. For your reference Osborne has already designated the 'Bench' to be moved to the new stadium. As the 'Bench' is portable it was well worth Osbornes intitial loan of £120,000 to gain the club by default. So in effect Osborne can just reassemble the 'Bench' at Nightingale Park- flat tarmac the other three sides of the ground for standing only and 'hey presto' a new stadium for next to nothing which is still up to NLS standard. As Nightingale Park is also designated by the Council for a park and ride scheme that is car parking solved. Then having keeped his part of the bargin e.g. 'new stadium' the Council can cancel the convenants on Plainmoor and sell him the freehold of Plainmoor and Osbornes gets his housing development. All of which if push came to shove could still be done by 2020.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Thing is Chris (snw) The point made above was, you 'don't' need to have personality and charisma to succeed as a football manager. Wenger, Howard Wilkinson, George Graham, Brendan Rodgers, and list could go on and on, of Dour personalities amongst managers who have won things.

I'm really not trying to come across as an apologist or Owers. He didn't fail in his task because he lacked personality, he failed because he had no choice but to, replace loan players with loan players, free agents with free agents, and I will suggest he was unable to sign players he really wanted, not the players he had no choice but to bring in.

You don't need to come in with a ra ra skirt on, telling Christmas cracker jokes, with Drake blaring out, while referring to your players as wozza to motivate and be successful.

And quite frankly if a manager has to spend god knows how many hours motivating his players, then there's seriously something wrong with the mentality of the players, players shouldn't need motivating to win games, that should come from within.

Said all along, Owers deserves the same second chance other previous managers have had at our club, I'll judge 12 or so games into next season. Those jumping off a cliff right now from all directions regards Owers, might be right hope not, but they could be and will have all the time they need for the old 'I told you so' they might also be eating a large slice of humble pie, that's what can happen when we judge to quick.

the point is Dave, whether you like him or not - hes failed.

[Gulliball]

I was stood just to the family stand side of the half way on the pop as normal, I did see Owers come brielfy into the centre circle and clap the fans , it was short however.

To be fair think he did the right thing, with tensions growing after the final whistle, if Owers had come to close not sure how things would have panned out.

Well, I think we do know how it would have panned out. The question is whether he would have been better fronting up to that now or running away from it. I can't help but feel that if he does want to be here long-term and win over the fans then it would have been better facing the criticism head on. It's not easy to do, but those fans will still be there in August. How is he going to keep to his promise to win them over if he runs away from them? He's backed into a corner now that it has to be automatic promotion or nothing, which is going to be hard enough with Billericay having a budget to blow us out the water, before you even get into smaller clubs being better run and beating us, as we've experienced for the last 4 years in the National League.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Why do people think Owers brief was 'to keep us in NL.'

That was Nicholson brief for two seasons under the old regime, but not this season, hence sacked after 4 games. It is fairly obvious that Owers brief was to put us in play off position but as we all know he failed dismally. Aside from blaming the referees, the weather, the pitches and anything he could think up, he also blamed the squad he inherited but ironically offers reengagement to the +6 to start in his team next season.

maybe you should read this....

http://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/gar ... d-co-39681

although, granted, it doesn't actually say which season......

again, he had more than enough time and players.

[Dave]

the point is Dave, whether you like him or not - hes failed.

Never said I liked the guy, don't disagree with you at all. Just saying he deserves a chance to put things right, just as others have had.

[Dave]

Well, I think we do know how it would have panned out. The question is whether he would have been better fronting up to that now or running away from it. I can't help but feel that if he does want to be here long-term and win over the fans then it would have been better facing the criticism head on. It's not easy to do, but those fans will still be there in August. How is he going to keep to his promise to win them over if he runs away from them? He's backed into a corner now that it has to be automatic promotion or nothing, which is going to be hard enough with Billericay having a budget to blow us out the water, before you even get into smaller clubs being better run and beating us, as we've experienced for the last 4 years in the National League.

I'm 100% certain, I stand right next to the group who were singing Owers out, even helped hold the banner on Tuesday Tensions between them and the stewards were growing by the second, not for the first time this season ( once again, the one with the glasses couldn't keep his big mouth shut) almost leading to a full blown confrontation as it was, had Owers come over, think things would/could have got out of hand.

Yes he does need to win the fans over, there's a time and place. Having said that, totally agree with the rest of your post, I'll add Hereford to the list as well, who could well be in the NLS.

Mind you budgets don't always mean a thing, see Macclesfield and Accrington.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Never said I liked the guy, don't disagree with you at all. Just saying he deserves a chance to put things right, just as others have had.

I know what you are saying Dave.

will he get more than four games???
perhaps 12 as you mentioned?
if we aren't challenging near the top with the chance he's had to pick his own team, then he should be down the road.
However, I personally wouldn't give him that chance.

[Plainmoor78]

The way that Owers , in fact any manager, is going to get onside with the supporters is to produce a winning team. Everything else, such as waving to the fans etc, is just bullshit.
Presumably Owers next season will be given target of getting promoted by osborne. That is what Owers is paid to do, if he achieves that the fans will be happy, if not they will be angry no matter how many times he waves at them.

[Gulliball]

Not leaving us with a squad that, had cleary no medical checks done, so a goalkeeper signed who can't wave to his family with out getting injured, and a right back with a potentially fatal heart condition, which may have been found sooner, and so on, and on.

I've seen this said on this forum a few times recently, which seems to be how things pass into folklore. Are you actually suggesting that we've signed players without conducting a medical? That is quite a serious accusation, that I struggle to believe is true.

For a start a medical is quite a routine aspect of any signing. To not go through with one would be quite staggering, and what exactly would the motivation be for this? Maybe Nicholson was bored with Great Escapes and fancied a season not knowing who would be on the pitch?

What I think the situation may actually be, is that we've signed players more prone to injury than might be ideal. It is the case with all players at this level that they have some defect, or they would be playing in a higher division. Likewise, with our budget in recent years we weren't able to compete with other clubs on money and so were faced with what was left. Cox, Nicholson and now Owers have all faced the same thing - and have all done the same thing. Pretty much everyone we sign will be unproven, inexperienced or not wanted elsewhere. In the last few years we have tried young players and been bullied out of games. Last summer we signed more experienced players, but the flipside to that is that they are on the way down or have some other defect that puts them in our price range. We tried having a mix of these players with some younger players and some established players - but then the manager that signed them was sacked after four games and the replacement had his own ideas.

Davis was injured in pre-season, but once that cleared has played in every game since, so not injury prone at all. Back when Nicholson was sacked he was included in such lists, but was actually a very successful signing over the season, as indicated by Owers wanting to keep him.
Gosling, Anderson, Klukowski, Pittman etc have not been injured, just were not rated by Owers, which is a result of changing manager 4 games into the season.
Clarke was our Player of the Month in August, then picked up an injury and then his replacement in Dorel was excellent and held down the spot for the end for the rest of the season, ending Clarke's season.
Ryan Higgins was sent for medical checks on his heart after his sister was diagnosed with a serious genetic heart defect. Given that he was 23 and has been at Everton, Birmingham etc then I think it's fair to say his sister's diagnosis led to more specified tests than footballers are given in a standard medical, so it seems pretty callous to suggest Torquay United could have diagnosed this sooner if it's a condition he'd had since birth.

Is there actually any evidence that as a manager Kevin Nicholson was negligent in his responsibilities when signing players, or is it actually just that we are a poor club that sign players not in demand elsewhere? The former just seems like an absolute kop-out that I struggle to believe is true. We have a physio, medical team, and a general manager to oversee the footballing side of the club, but if you read this forum it was the manager that signed injured players, never gave them a medical and then only trained them with tyre flipping. The problem with this is that the medical staff would have needed to sign off on this, and then the general manager would need to presumably ignore the fact that basic things like medicals weren't being done. The players would then need to forget that they'd been professionals for up to 15 years and not keep themselves fit - what is the thinking there? Presumably 'no, the manager likes tyre flipping and so between signing in June and him being sacked in August I will lower my standards to such an extent that it is obvious that other sides are much fitter than us'?

If that were true, then we would have done well to get rid of such a bad egg in Kevin Nicholson. The trouble with that though is that the medical staff who didn't give medicals are still at the club now. The general manager who let the manger he was overseeing fail to carry out basic procedures is still at the club now. The players who had been fit for the rest of their careers, let themselves become unfit between June and August and then became much fitter again... are still at the club now, and have been offered new deals to stay here.

The manager we replaced this underperforming person with, was able to immediately rectify all these basic errors and improve things. Except, no wait, he wasn't able to improve upon any of this and actually did even worse than his predecessor, despite all these major flaws that led to him being sacked...

Let's face it, we are a poor side and you get what you pay for. In the last 3 years that has been peanuts, and if you pay peanuts... This won't change until our budget changes and we can compete with other clubs for in demand players. For all the talk of cash bids and £1m budgets, let's wait for that to materialise. Until then, we are faced with cast-offs that have some defect, losing a lot of games, and a manager that ultimately takes the stick for it. In the last few weeks I seem to have made a few posts that defend Nicholson, but I've never really tried to do that - it just seems that every topic ultimately comes back to the fact that since Thea Bristow left we've had no money, and that's reflected on the pitch and in the results. Given these restraints whoever is manager will be up against it, but to date Nicholson did better than Cox before him and Owers since, whilst doing far more than either off the pitch. That is why I think his tenure needs to be placed in context (as does Owers) and myths about unfit and injured players need to be challenged.

[merse btpir]

Not that I agree with all of it but nevertheless a well thought out and constructed posting

[merse btpir]

The way that Owers , in fact any manager, is going to get onside with the supporters is to produce a winning team. Everything else, such as waving to the fans etc, is just bullshit.

Correct!

All the rest is just frippery, smoke and mirrors ~ results count, rebuilding the club counts; waving to the fans categorically does not. The greatest manager we ever had* never once went out onto the pitch at the end of any game.

Good managers don't need to be waving to fans and good supporters don't need to be waved to; it's just a childish culture we are in now where everybody feels they have to be thanked for turning up and everybody seems to think they should go over and do what used to be reserved for the end of a season every bloody week ~ defeat after defeat after defeat.

.....and only a **** idiot would go and thank fans who are calling for him to be sacked.

*Frank O'Farrell spoke with actions and results and that's what a manager is paid to do!