Torquay United Fans Forum

Several interesting points on here but the main ones are:-

1. Yeovil's promotion is down to one man - Gary Johnson. Never ever underestimate the influence this man has. He almost got Bristol City into the premier league but then after starting the next season with some defeats, the fans got on his back and they sacked him. Now look where they are.

2. Swansea and Cardiff are both city clubs and when a club does well, the local population WILL turn out. I remember watching United play both in front of small crowds. When we do well, we hope for 4,000. That would never sustain a Championship club.

3. We have to admit that we're not the most ambitious club and L1 is probably the best we could ever hope to achieve. The majority of the local population in Torbay have retired down there and have other allegiances. Then the majority of youngsters follow Premier League clubs simply because kids want success. How many Chelsea shirts did you see in Torquay 20 years ago? Now you see them every Saturday being worn by kids. Likewise Man.City.

Good luck to Yeovil though for next year, they could surprise a few people.

Gullscorer wrote:You're right Forever, our youth development will reap dividends for us in the future; it seems to be doing so already.

As we're now subject to the EPPP system then you an forget about nurturing youngsters that will be snapped up by higher up clubs for reasonable transfer fees. Whilst wikipedia isnt exactly the most accurate source for anything, it seems to have all the figures pretty right.

You're right Forever, our youth development will reap dividends for us in the future; it seems to be doing so already. If Yeovil have been relying more upon the loan system to achieve success, they will find this less productive as a Championship side, and ditching their youth set-up will come back to haunt them. They will be fortunate to survive in the Championship.

But if they do come straight back down, at least they can say they've been there, and, assuming they remain financially prudent, it does not mean they will fall all the way back to the Conference.

For us in League Two, with a mix of home-grown talent, loan players, and some judicious signings under Alan Knill, along with a more exciting attacking approach to the game, the prospects of a more successful season in 2013/14 look pretty good. And the chances of us emulating Yeovil's success are certainly not in the realms of fantasy, unlike my dreams of a new stadium for the Gulls..!!

This is fantastic for Yoevil Town and fair play to them for achieving promotion to the championship, as long as Yoevil continue to live with in their means, and do not spend money they can't afford trying to stay there, they will be none the worse for the experience, if the best Yoevil have is not enough then so be it, they will return to League 1 a bigger better club, if they do try to over spend to stay there, then they will fall faster than Stockport.

There is one difference however between Yoevil and Torquay, at the end of the previuos season Yoevil closed most of there youth set up, ditching there acadmey sides from U8-U14 keeping only a late developer and youth team, at the end of this season just gone they closed their youth set up completely diverting all that money into their first team squad.

Where as our club have placed greater importance on developing home grown talent, ten years down the line which one of us will benefit more, one look at Crewe shows if you get your develop policy right how a small club can benefit by going down that route, where as every time Yoevil find a Paddy Madden they will allways be left with having to spend to replace that type of player, not allways that easy.

You are correct RR. Sheff Wednesday don't have a car park for the public but there is loads of street parking up herries road and around the side streets. I do believe they have 'football specials' which are buses going up penistone road from the city centre but i could be wrong.

I think Yeovil have shown that reaching championship level with next to no budget for a small club is possible if everything falls right. The important aspects to remember about Bradford and Portsmouth is that once they got where they wanted to be they then went mental and spent money they didn't have and so relegation was always going to result in decline as they simply had no way of recouping the ridiculous expenditure they spent trying to stay there.

I do agree with Gullscorer in terms of the sheer memories one would have if Torquay made it to the Championship in our lifetime. Even if we were relegated in the first season we can say we've been and done it. There wouldn't be a hope in hell of us staying there like Yeovil won't be in the championship for much longer either but so long as they don't spend money they haven't got then should they go down it wouldn't mean terminal decline of the club like what has happened to Pompey etc. I know it would be important to stay there Matt if we did get there but it is totally impossible unless we get a rich oligarch or something willing to pump cash in and take the hit if it went wrong. We simply wouldn't have the financial resources to compete long term at that level even if crowds increased slightly.

So it is better for us to try and get there on nothing than to spend trying to stay there. So long as the club is run properly then there would be no reason to see the consecutive relegations that teams often seem to suffer when they get relegated. If we could stay in the championship for as long as possible then great but it would be only a matter of time before we went down again.

I also don't agree much with your argument about a new stadium and better transport connections Gullscorer. The only way crowds will increase to anything like the sort of numbers we would hope for is if the club are doing well at least in league 1. Even if we are doing well in league 2 the crowds are pretty crap and they only pick up towards the end of the season when interest from the 'fans' who aren't real fans swells the crowds somewhat. Apathy is the word, we could lay free buses on from Torquay centre and have a new stadium but crowds wouldn't increase a great deal to make it worthwhile. As clubs like Darlington etc have found out, there is no point in building a new stadium when the team is crap and it is virtually empty on a matchday. Take Chesterfield, their first season in the new stadium saw crowds of 7 or 8 thousand, up from a regular crowd of about 4000 at Saltergate. They were all caught up in the euphoria of the new stadium and the success of the team in the first year which got promotion, but the minute they began to struggle and crowds dwindled to what they are now. What is the point of us having a new stadium when we couldn't even fill Plainmoor if we were 30 points clear at the top of the league and playing like Barcelona? A winning team is the only thing likely to get crowds in and not how close our ground is to a bus station or if it has a great flash looking club shop and massive car park. People will be people and other than the 2000 or so hardcore that can be guaranteed through the turnstiles, making up the rest of the numbers relies on only one thing. A successful football team.

saying that sheff wed dont have a car park, as far as im aware they have only ever had street parking unless that has changed since i was there last, and that was an fa cup semi final stadium, also i think if we were to get to the heady heights of the championship, at least we would fill our 6,300 capacity most weeks instead of having a 25000 all seater with it half full most of the time.

KentGull wrote:They should be moved back to the Welsh leagues.... freeing up two relegation spots in League 2.... (((cough!)))

Yes, and take the other Welsh teams with them....(Bristol Rovers & Bristol City)!
and.........Argyle should go to the Crap (Cornish Regional Association Premier)

Ok, you tell me then, in 10 years time, when AFC Yeovil United of Manchester are playing in the Little Mick's Hardware Shop 19th Division against the Dog and Duck reserves and the Wolf and Hound Women's under 8 third string, that it was worth it all for the sake of 9 months in the Championship.

These feelings are perfectly connected to abysmal greed and short termism, because Chairmen feel as you do, so they throw millions and millions of pounds at clubs, get them to places they can't afford, then run out of money and walk away, leaving the club to fall into a world of pain and misery. You end up with 25 years of rebuilding, all for the sake of being a Championship club that no one remembers. It simply isn't worth it. Much better to be a L1 side for 25 years than a Championship side for one season and then back in the depths of amateur football for the other 24.

We can do this in practice. When Pompey turn up, ask them if they'd swap that solitary FA Cup win and all that has happened since for being knocked out in the 5th Round and still being in the Premier League. If any of them tell you they wouldn't, they're lying.

Matt.

Any Gulls fan would tell you that they'd be quite happy if Torquay had only just one season in the Championship in the club's history. Doesn't mean they wouldn't want more. Wigan won the FA Cup this year. They may never win it again, but at least Wigan fans would cherish the memory of that one great success. And if Yeovil only ever have one season in the Championship, at least they can say they did it once in their history. Those one-off successes will never be meaningless to their fans. Doesn't mean that any of them or any of us would not want to maintain or repeat the success, and I can't see how you can possibly connect these feelings to 'driving abysmal greed and short-termism.

Matt, you're logic is illogical...!! :~D :na:

Tell that to Bradford. All the way up and all the way back down in 9 years. Just getting there is meaningless. Staying there is the challenge. Any side can get there just once, that doesn't mean a thing if you end up back where you were or further back down for the sake of 9 months of glory. It's attitudes like yours which is driving the abysmal greed and short termism which is killing the game at all professional levels. Crawley, Portsmouth, QPR but to name three from very recent years. Have a look a little further back and we see Leeds, Boston, Swindon et al.

Sure, they've done well, but this is the start, not the end.

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote:That said, it's not getting there, it's staying there.

Matt.

No it's not. It's actually a small club like Yeovil being able to say, at least we've been there, at least once in our history.

And all credit to Yeovil, they've done it with one of the lowest playing budgets in League One, and in only their tenth year as a Football League club, and with an average attendance of 4071.

Apart from our recent two season spell in the Conference, Torquay has been a Football League club since 1927, playing in Division 3 (League One) or Division 4 (League Two). We narrowly lost out on promotion to Division 2 (Championship) twice, I believe, under Eric Webber in the 1950s and Frank O'Farrell in the 1960s. But for so many seasons, we've been simply struggling against relegations.

All we can say is that our club has survived, sometimes more by luck than judgement, but we're still here, and to those who say we will never be a Championship club, I say that if Yeovil can do it, then we can do it.

But I can't help wondering whether Yeovil's rise to their current giddy heights really began when they moved from their old Huish ground to their new Huish Park stadium in 1990, and that the Gulls, if they are to make any real progress up the leagues with the bigger crowds that will require, should also be thinking and planning for a stadium in a new location in the not too distant future. For as much as we love Plainmoor, it's really not good enough, no car/coach park, inadequate public transport, and too far from the railway line and the main road connections. Plainmoor's location is not attractive nor conducive to decent regular crowds.

If we have any ambition for promotion to League One and beyond, we must necessarily have ambition for bigger crowds, and for a modern stadium in a convenient location which will enable those crowds to attend. And if Yeovil can do it, so too can Torquay.

Are we spelling Alan's surname without the 'K' now?

Matt.

Exactly, you only have to look at Sc.unthorpe who were managed in the championship by our own AN but who will find themselves in league 2 once again next season. Well done to Yeovil - a huge achievement and as others have said it shows what can be done on a small budget with the right people in charge. Personally I think although we are a similar size of club we would possibly struggle to get the kinds of crowds they have managed in league 1 although playing at that level should be the long term aim of the board.

That said, it's not getting there, it's staying there.

Matt.