Negativity, Negativity

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Negativity, Negativity

by nickbrod » 02 Jan 2014, 17:18

I started this thread in all good faith but now trying to type and eat humble pie at the same time.

Negativity, Negativity

by Colorado Gull » 02 Jan 2014, 12:31

We have some good players in this squad, I'm not denying that, but they are all below par. I agree with the statement that we are lacking a great deal of leadership, a manager with some passion for the club may be a start? I have no doubt that this is the main reason why the players are not playing as well as they could at the moment.

Negativity, Negativity

by tomogull » 02 Jan 2014, 12:21

:goodpost: lot of sense in your posting, Matt, especially with reference to younger players not being given more opportunities. Rather harsh on Dale Tonge, though. I know he's come in for some stick on the Forum but personally I think he's a reasonable right back ..... not the best full back in the division but far from being the worst.

Negativity, Negativity

by Matt » 02 Jan 2014, 12:01

We have enough good players, realistically if you look at our squad most of our regular players would be taken on by other league 2 teams in a heartbeat. Poke is a solid keeper at this level, Tonge admittedly wouldn't look out of place at Buckland or a team at that level, Downes has to be happy to not have had his knee fall apart this season yet but although his performance at Argyle was in no way his finest he's still a proven performer at this level. Criticism of Cruise is in my opinion a bit harsh, his positional ability is hampered by the fact he spends half his time trying to cover for us not having a left midfielder so he's attacking, defending, pressing, marking, which all sounds reasonable for a professional but let's be honest, there are players in the premier league who can't stick to a position to save their lives also. Mansell would be taken on in a flash by teams in our league even if only for his passion. Mozika has the ability to play some nice football but lacks fitness which doesn't help. Chappell and Bodin are both in the same bracket in that they both possess undeniable ability but for whatever reason aren't displaying it regularly, perhaps a game plan based around not conceding doesn't help their attacking instincts flourish, who knows. Both however are players that when they leave us, as they undoubtedly will, will have strong careers at a bigger and better club and we will all sit and bemoan the fact that they didn't deliver for us. In reality they are confidence players as are so many attackers, and their confidence level is at rock bottom. Hawley would have been a great signing 8 years ago, but unfortunately although he holds up the ball and has a good touch he isn't in a team set up to play to his strengths. So he isn't cutting it with us. All 3 of the attackers listed would easily be signed up once released. I'm not going to mention loanees, because it's obvious that both O'Connor and McCourt will have good careers at a higher level than league 2. Honourable mention also goes to Nathan Craig who, as pointed out earlier, can strike a ball as well as anyone, but the reason his overall game hasn't improved is that he doesn't get any game time! It's like the Dan Sullivan situation. We all get wound up that we never bring through our own players, even Exeter have 5 or 6 youth graduates playing in their squad. We will undoubtedly do to Sullivan what we did to Halpin, and to a degree, Yeoman. These are lads who at 16/17 showed great potential, so we do the right thing and give them a deal. Great, good move. This is what the other clubs do. Then we fall down, because we don't play them! Halpin looked decent at 17, I remember him coming on and skinning a full back numerous times in his cameo, but then never got a chance again. We need to have faith to change the team and play attacking football instead of focusing on not conceding. Get these decent players happy and we will start to turn it around. Sorry for such a long post, needed to get it out.

Negativity, Negativity

by hector » 02 Jan 2014, 11:03

Behind-the-Gulls wrote:Branno made some very good points-could do with his no nonsense style of defending and on-field leadership at the moment.
Was sat near to Simon Baker yesterday who looked totally pissed-off at the end of the match and would have been made well aware of the frustration of the fans as he mingled with us before and during the game.The tone of Dave Thomas's match report in today's Herald suggests he thinks Knill's time is almost up too.

If you have a moment, would you mind putting the link up. I was looking on Herald site but couldn't find it. Thanks

Negativity, Negativity

by Dave » 02 Jan 2014, 11:00

As far as Guy Branston is concerned, what you have is a man, who is still a current professional footballer, also a licensed football coach, and now a business man running a scouting/get noticed website and soccer camps not just for young aspiring footballers but for out of work pros as well. Guy Branston may well with his career now at an end, see himself as a potential candidate in the future not just for the Torquay job, but management jobs full stop.

I would suggest that Guy Branston regardless of who he speaks and when, is acting with a great deal of professionalism, and fair play to him for that.

As for negativity, there's good reason for me, there's several things I've in recent weeks could go on for hours. But there was on thing that happened in the second half of the match that summed up our team. The ball was down in the right corner with the Plymouth right back ' Don't let him play out' What happened, a Plymouth player made a short run received a 10 yrd pass from the right back into feet, he turned, there was another Plymouth player making a run to his right, the ball went into his feet , three passes and they had a 4 v3 attacking over load..enough to make any football coach at any level tear his hair out, as we stood motionless and watched it happen.

Negativity, Negativity

by Behind-the-Gulls » 02 Jan 2014, 10:48

Branno made some very good points-could do with his no nonsense style of defending and on-field leadership at the moment.
Was sat near to Simon Baker yesterday who looked totally pissed-off at the end of the match and would have been made well aware of the frustration of the fans as he mingled with us before and during the game.The tone of Dave Thomas's match report in today's Herald suggests he thinks Knill's time is almost up too.

Negativity, Negativity

by AustrianAndyGull » 02 Jan 2014, 10:31

Anyway, all the months of moaning about bad luck and errors begs the question. What the frig is Alan doing in training?! Certainly not working on strategies to try and eradicate these gaffes that is for sure.

Negativity, Negativity

by AustrianAndyGull » 02 Jan 2014, 10:29

I think it's a bit of both diamondgirl in all honesty but in players like Hawley, Cameron, Craig, Tonge, Cruise, Bodin they are clearly not what we need and not going to help us progress. Billy is the most infuriating because many of you think he has a great talent but IMO we have yet to see it in 2 seasons and his contract runs out in the summer. If he were to be offered a contract on the basis that he might have some ability but has been unable to show it for 2 seasons for whatever reason then I will be livid. Craig has a superb delivery but you need more as a footballer, Cameron is young and will do ok somewhere but just not for us, Tonge I just don't know about - looks bang average. Hawley has given up on football thanks to his alarming slide down the leagues, Cruise looks weak and positionally clueless and it goes on.

We have some decent players like Downes, Mansell and O'Connor but I think all of them are finding it tough now and they are getting sloppy. Mansell and Downes already brow beaten from last years relegation battle, do they have it in them for another go this time round? I fear not, I think we need another spark to lift the players and not just another loanee striker.

Mozika is still improving and getting back to normal but it's too late as far as this season is concerned, Pearce is a decent player but never gets a look in due to the afore mentioned poor management. So IMO half the squad shouldn't really be out on the pitch and the ones that are like Downes, Chappell etc have been severely affected by shocking leadership and management and have become shadows of what we know they are. Indecisiveness shown by Knill seems to be manifesting itself in the players and we are making errors all over the place and paying the price whilst the creative players, well, the lights have gone out in all honesty leaving our success in the hands of loanees whose brief stints here are just short enough to not allow the 'Knill effect' to creep into their minds and their play. They can knock in a couple and then go back to their club unaffected by the atmosphere and the way Knill operates.

We have the players to be at least on 30 points. Do Morecambe have a far better side than us? They are on 35 ffs! They have one or two key individuals but so do we, our are just being worn down by Knill.

So after all that it is a case of 50/50 IMO but that is where we need a boss to get the best out of players who aren't the greatest. He isn't getting the best out of players who ARE talented so the bang average ones are going to look like dummies in that case.

Negativity, Negativity

by diamondgirl » 02 Jan 2014, 10:07

Danny, I dont believe the players are, with one or two exceptions, below par. I believe they lack leadership, from management. Given the correct person in charge I think we would be competative, as we have been, in the recent past.

Negativity, Negativity

by hector » 02 Jan 2014, 09:49

budleigh wrote:I would suggest that Guy Branston wasn't just being polite.
My belief is he genuinely feels the squad and management at Torquay United are more than capable of staving of relegation.
Maybe but the evidence suggests otherwise. We cannot wait any longer for Knill, to break with character and his career so far, and suddenly come good. It's just not going to happen.

Negativity, Negativity

by budleigh » 02 Jan 2014, 09:16

I would suggest that Guy Branston wasn't just being polite.
My belief is he genuinely feels the squad and management at Torquay United are more than capable of staving of relegation.

Negativity, Negativity

by Gullscorer » 02 Jan 2014, 01:08

Branston may well be right in identifying our better players and in saying we are not far off having a team which can compete. But then it must also be true that they have not been performing to their full potential with Knill in charge. So even if Knill stays and we still avoid the drop, the question mark will still remain over his managerial abilities, until such time as he proves himself, and even then the question must be asked, why were we so poor this season under his managership.

Negativity, Negativity

by Colorado Gull » 02 Jan 2014, 00:51

True Diamondgirl.

Guy Branston is a fantastic guy and in my eyes will always be a mini legend and one of the best centre backs that we have ever had here at Torquay United. But what he said to you Nick has no relevance to what is the reality of what is going on. Knill is clueless, the board don't have a clue and the players are way below average, it's a shambles and there needs to be a change.

Negativity, Negativity

by diamondgirl » 02 Jan 2014, 00:14

It, also, doesn't make it true just because Guy Branston says it.

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