Torquay United Fans Forum

Scott, it was 2 bloody loanees that were here short term (a whole month each was it?) that we were paying little for. That was hardly breaking the bank was it.

As for the transfer fees, it clearly wasnt given to Knill either.

Sunnysideup wrote: Which would be the part of the wage budget that was saved from not paying Howe (a wodge), Saah, Stevens, Jarvis, Macklin, Oastler and whoever else left in the summer.

This was before the summer ended.

Money was made available for loans that wasn't there for Ling.

Besides, what about the stack of cash made by the sale of Bobby and Eunan......

Scott Brehaut wrote:The same could be said of Ling - I've heard from numerous sources that he had been told to use youth etc as there was zero funds available - yet they were magically given when Juan took over....

Which would be the part of the wage budget that was saved from not paying Howe (a wodge), Saah, Stevens, Jarvis, Macklin, Oastler and whoever else left in the summer.

The trouble is that there's nothing to build on. It's the forwards, isn't it? None of them are any good!

I don't think we'll agree on this Dave but I take your point about the board.

forevertufc wrote: Scott, I, 100% agree with you there, I'm in no doubt that both ML and AK where right royally forked over. My main issue with ML and this may seem beyond harsh, was the question mark over his health and the main reason why I thought it was right not to let him return to his job, like many I heard so many different rumours, from Cancer to the demon drink, it turned out to be a mental health issue, and he has my sympathy and truly I wish him the best with that.

ML has now revealed he suffered similar problems while manager of Cambridge, so clearly football management is the root cause of those problems to me, and makes me think the decision not to let him resume his job was the correct one, he's now running a football coaching school, something he will be very successful at, and I wish him the best with.

Andy, agree with your sentiment on Knill, but when one, you've had the rug pulled from under your feet, and two, there's spanners being thrown at you , motivating people can be a hard thing to do.

Yes so you walk away from the job because you cannot do it anymore or explain to the fans what is REALLY going on and risk the sack. Two options there, both altruistic but both morally correct. You don't just keep on taking the wedge and making things worse. Makes me think even less of him now.

Scott Brehaut wrote: The same could be said of Ling - I've heard from numerous sources that he had been told to use youth etc as there was zero funds available - yet they were magically given when Juan took over....

Scott, I, 100% agree with you there, I'm in no doubt that both ML and AK where right royally forked over. My main issue with ML and this may seem beyond harsh, was the question mark over his health and the main reason why I thought it was right not to let him return to his job, like many I heard so many different rumours, from Cancer to the demon drink, it turned out to be a mental health issue, and he has my sympathy and truly I wish him the best with that.

ML has now revealed he suffered similar problems while manager of Cambridge, so clearly football management is the root cause of those problems to me, and makes me think the decision not to let him resume his job was the correct one, he's now running a football coaching school, something he will be very successful at, and I wish him the best with.

Andy, agree with your sentiment on Knill, but when one, you've had the rug pulled from under your feet, and two, there's spanners being thrown at you , motivating people can be a hard thing to do.

If we start slowly on Tuesday we get beat. Get out of the traps, get players forward in their droves and get f*cking stuck in there!! We leave ourselves exposed yes but we'll get beaten anyway so go out and try and win the game FFS!!

Yes Dave but Knill couldn't motivate or mould the the players already here into an effective unit including the ones he DID sign and the ones he DID bring in on loan. With this in mind then even he had signed Cooper when he did or anyone else for that matter the likelihood was that they wouldn't have made a difference anyway due to Knill being so sh*t.

Our squad is not one full of bottom of the league players, it just looks like it because if the way they are managed.

Knill could have had the budget of a Fleetwood or Chesterfield and still struggled because he is not very good. Giving that man even more cash to waste on frivolous flights of fancy like Mozika would have been a huge mistake. He is clueless.

Sure he may have had contacts to bring in players but it's what he does with them once he has got them that is the issue. I go back to a point I made during last seasons relegation scrap. Why can a team from the lower reaches of non-league give league sides a fright in cup ties? Why do league teams play top flight opposition in cup ties and do well? Because they approach the game in the right manner and find the energy and desire from deep within. Poor footballers can give anyone a game given the right application and although many of you believe that simple hard work isn't good enough well add a high tempo and high pressing and it gives everyone a boost. That is really all we need to get out of this, not extra players. We just need the right attitude and real grit and desire. Get the wingers to be wingers and get the full backs forward. Get balls whipped in and get players forward. Alternatively we could play like we did against Accrington and just have Hawley back to goal all afternoon laying off balls to the wingers who daren't risk homing in on goal so hold it up but when they get the ball over there is nobody there because they are all too frightened of making a mistake.

Knill could have had Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar and still made them look like a trio of plumbers. He would also have dropped Ronaldo and sent Messi out on loan to Tiverton. We wasted no more money thank God.

I am one of those who wasn't in favour of appointing Alan Knill. Yes I know he was at the helm when we survived last season, But if you looked at history, You would find that every time we had a new manager in to save our skins at the death, and then offered him the job on a permanent basis. It all collapsed the following season.
I don't know why this is. It just is.
Rovers too had the same problem. I checked a few other clubs and it is a surprisingly common thing.
That is my main reasoning behind this. look at the last few years and you will see I am right.

forevertufc wrote:That's because you're not seeing certain things that I am, for a start you have to ask yourself a question, why did Alan Knill believe he had room left to sign Cooper in the summer, as he tried to, to find the money wasn't there, yet days after AK was sacked money was found to sign Cooper, Shaun Cooper wouldn't have had some road to Damascus experience, and suddenly drop his wage demands by half , now would he? Had AK been allowed to sign Cooper as he wanted to, our full back problem might not have been so bad, now would it?

The same could be said of Ling - I've heard from numerous sources that he had been told to use youth etc as there was zero funds available - yet they were magically given when Juan took over....

Come on lads - let's not throw in the towel just yet. We were all shell-shocked after Saturday's abyssmal display but it's past and gone. I was as despondent as anyone on here. But maybe, just maybe, that gutless display will result in CH demanding more determination and more commitment which could turn things around. I'm now looking forward to tomorrow night and three points ...... and something at Hartlepool which could put us back on track. Yes - Andy, Matt and Brucie - I'm clutching at straws but we've got to clutch at something !

That's because you're not seeing certain things that I am, for a start you have to ask yourself a question, why did Alan Knill believe he had room left to sign Cooper in the summer, as he tried to, to find the money wasn't there, yet days after AK was sacked money was found to sign Cooper, Shaun Cooper wouldn't have had some road to Damascus experience, and suddenly drop his wage demands by half , now would he? Had AK been allowed to sign Cooper as he wanted to, our full back problem might not have been so bad, now would it?

What's AK's pay off, £100k ? Well £60-70k would have paid the wages of the type of striker AK actually wanted to sign, not the one's he did, see is the picture now building up for some. In the end I lost faith in Alan Knill, yes, because after Plymouth it was obvious he had lost all confidence from the players and fans alike, when you get to that stage, there is only one option, an option that could have avoided, for many reasons.

I don't think anyone can argue that Knill has cost us. He has made some awful decisions selection wise and some dreadful errors tactically.
Myself and Wivelgull were ridiculed after the Wimbledon game for saying that we would be in relegation trouble. Posters such as gullinwotplaces and Fl were at totally opposite ends of the spectrum to ourselves. Nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day we all turn up at Plainmoor hoping our team will win.
As the season has gone on though our views have seem to come together as our chances of staying up have faded.
With home games against Accrington and Burton we still had a decent chance to get ourselves in a better position.
As has been stated Accrington were an absolutely appalling side,terrible.
Yet by half time without actually doiing anything we had been kept in the game by Poke.
Of course its Knills fault - he was clueless.
He signed some terrible players.
Tonge who is worse than Oastler.
Hawley - he is possibly one of the worst strikers we have ever had. Plays almost the whole game with his back to goal. He must be a centre halfs dream to mark.
You could go on and on.
One of the key errors was not to sign any centre half as cover for Downes and Pearce. When injuries arrived over he was then forced to play Cruise in this position.
Cruise is probably the worst defender we have ever had - how on earth was he ever on Arsenals books.
When Pearce was fit Knill then left him out over the new year period - another quite ridiculous error of judgement as desperately needed points disappeared.
Then onto Hargreaves - in all fairness its not his fault but a succession of desperately awful signings who are either inured,don't play or when they do seem incapable of playing professional football seem to have made the situation worse.
Its a dismal situation it really is.

AustrianAntheaGull wrote: Hi Dave

I just post as I see it, I have to be honest and say that I have zero idea of anything that goes on behind the scenes at Torquay and even if I did I probably wouldn't understand it anyway!

I am interested in why people think the board are to blame so I can try and understand but for now I just see one man who has had plenty of opportunity to do his job properly not do this make seemingly straightforward tasks look like circus games. The board weren't to know just what an idiot Knill was to be and just how badly he would balls things up. Nobody did. That is why I don't think they can be apportioned blame for this season. Like I said, I have no knowledge of things behind the scenes but my black and white view is that any random average l2 manager appointed and performing to anywhere near like normal ability would have seen us a lot higher in the table than we are now and so it leads me back to Knill as the root of the disease.

That particular line could be applied to more than one person at TUFC.