by ferrarilover » 30 Apr 2014, 13:02
Gullscorer wrote:Mark Twain once said: 'In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the question at issue, but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.'
The same could be said of any area of life. If people repeat other people's opinions or gossip or misconceptions (or even lies) often enough, they will eventually be accepted as fact. It happens in Academia too. It's called 'evidence by citation'.. :-|
Not often you and I agree on non-football matters, but this one gets my goat too. As you'd imagine, I spend a lot of my time telling other people what other people think based on what I've been told by the first group of people, who themselves have based their information to share with me on the very opinions which I am quoting back to them. Now, I'll concede, I do get to quote some fabulously intelligent and well read people, whose opinions are probably worth listening to. But for every one of them, there are at least half a dozen citations offered from "some **** or another" who happens to have written a journal article or newspaper column.
Drives me nuts that, effectively, Richard Littlejohn is liable to having his opinion quoted on my specialist subject (about which, like everything, he knows nothing), but I cannot offer my own insights (as valid and evidentially sound as they may be) because, with the greatest of respect, who the **** am I?
I had a relevant experience last night watching the BBC News at 10. They were in Yorkshire (not, as I'm sure you're aware, a county noted for being heaving full of the sorts of people of whom UKIP disapprove) and every single person they asked said they thought (we may already be pushing the bounds of credibility, but I'll let that slide) that immigration was too high. Cut to a wide angle scene of the large, public gathering at which they were all being interviewed, and guess what, not a non-white, non-English face amongst a crown of thousands.
These people get their "opinions" from that Farage prat and his daft newspaper cronies at the Daily Wail, then simple regurgitate them as their own, reasoned, evidenced, researched opinions, without ever thinking where the information came from and what the agenda of the people selling it might be. I'd dearly love to ask any of them if they can think of a time in the last, say, year, when they have been disadvantaged, in any way, by an "immigrant". The answer, of course, is that they haven't, and nor have I and nor have you, because "immigrants" don't actually inconvenience or harm us in any way. Certainly no way which is bespoke to them.
I'm sure Dave won't mind my sharing the story (so far as I understand it) of his recent run in with a couple of Polish chaps who tried to relieve him of his hard earned at a cash point (if memory serves). He shooed them off as you'd expect, but the Facebook comments which followed were, well, typical of Facebook, I'm afraid. As if there aren't many thousands of perfectly English muggers knocking about...
I deal with "immigrants" a lot. They cook me absolutely wonderful food at my local Indian, a couple of them work at the local drinks manufacturing factory near where I live. A couple of them play for my football team. When I go to London, they drive my buses and Tube trains and they serve my Costa Coffee and man the receptions at all the best hotels. They are also, mainly, the doctors and nurses who treated my when I was extremely sick However, who do I see in Plymouth when I spend time at the local Magistrates' Court? White people, English white people who have had every opportunity that you and I have enjoyed, rather than growing up in a hut in Romania, and have still ended up bobbing about at the bottom of the barrel. Immigrants causing all our problems? I'm very much afraid the fault lies much closer to home.
Anyway, sorry, what was I saying? Bill Phillips eh, what a cock!
Matt.
[quote="Gullscorer"]Mark Twain once said: [i]'In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the question at issue, but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.'[/i]
The same could be said of any area of life. If people repeat other people's opinions or gossip or misconceptions (or even lies) often enough, they will eventually be accepted as fact. It happens in Academia too. It's called 'evidence by citation'.. :-|[/quote]
Not often you and I agree on non-football matters, but this one gets my goat too. As you'd imagine, I spend a lot of my time telling other people what other people think based on what I've been told by the first group of people, who themselves have based their information to share with me on the very opinions which I am quoting back to them. Now, I'll concede, I do get to quote some fabulously intelligent and well read people, whose opinions are probably worth listening to. But for every one of them, there are at least half a dozen citations offered from "some **** or another" who happens to have written a journal article or newspaper column.
Drives me nuts that, effectively, Richard Littlejohn is liable to having his opinion quoted on my specialist subject (about which, like everything, he knows nothing), but I cannot offer my own insights (as valid and evidentially sound as they may be) because, with the greatest of respect, who the **** am I?
I had a relevant experience last night watching the BBC News at 10. They were in Yorkshire (not, as I'm sure you're aware, a county noted for being heaving full of the sorts of people of whom UKIP disapprove) and every single person they asked said they thought (we may already be pushing the bounds of credibility, but I'll let that slide) that immigration was too high. Cut to a wide angle scene of the large, public gathering at which they were all being interviewed, and guess what, not a non-white, non-English face amongst a crown of thousands.
These people get their "opinions" from that Farage prat and his daft newspaper cronies at the Daily Wail, then simple regurgitate them as their own, reasoned, evidenced, researched opinions, without ever thinking where the information came from and what the agenda of the people selling it might be. I'd dearly love to ask any of them if they can think of a time in the last, say, year, when they have been disadvantaged, in any way, by an "immigrant". The answer, of course, is that they haven't, and nor have I and nor have you, because "immigrants" don't actually inconvenience or harm us in any way. Certainly no way which is bespoke to them.
I'm sure Dave won't mind my sharing the story (so far as I understand it) of his recent run in with a couple of Polish chaps who tried to relieve him of his hard earned at a cash point (if memory serves). He shooed them off as you'd expect, but the Facebook comments which followed were, well, typical of Facebook, I'm afraid. As if there aren't many thousands of perfectly English muggers knocking about...
I deal with "immigrants" a lot. They cook me absolutely wonderful food at my local Indian, a couple of them work at the local drinks manufacturing factory near where I live. A couple of them play for my football team. When I go to London, they drive my buses and Tube trains and they serve my Costa Coffee and man the receptions at all the best hotels. They are also, mainly, the doctors and nurses who treated my when I was extremely sick However, who do I see in Plymouth when I spend time at the local Magistrates' Court? White people, English white people who have had every opportunity that you and I have enjoyed, rather than growing up in a hut in Romania, and have still ended up bobbing about at the bottom of the barrel. Immigrants causing all our problems? I'm very much afraid the fault lies much closer to home.
Anyway, sorry, what was I saying? Bill Phillips eh, what a cock!
Matt.
