Torquay United Fans Forum

torkie_buoy wrote:Right, I understand. Mansell was a hard worker yes, but it seems that's all he had to give, he gave it his all. Harding on the other hand, hasn't, for one reason or another, and that just gives me the idea that there is more to come from him. Time will indeed tell Tomogull

Tomogull is the voice of experience and if there was a choice between a Mansell on form and Harding on form, Mansell would win his place easily.

Right, I understand. Mansell was a hard worker yes, but it seems that's all he had to give, he gave it his all. Harding on the other hand, hasn't, for one reason or another, and that just gives me the idea that there is more to come from him. Time will indeed tell Tomogull

you could say that but at least its freed cash at the end of the day. And with Harding I'm not sure we've seen the full picture yet- watched him at northampton and thought he was a decent box to box midfielder, plus hes got a bit of height and strength which id say the squad lacks in midfield.[/quote]
'Freed up cash' for what ?? Personally, i am sorry to see both Mansell and Lathrope leaving (if the Dave Thomas paper talk is correct in Lathrope's case) because even if Mansell was not a regular in the side, he'd be a damn good option to have on the bench. Lathrope is a decent defensive midfielder and I'm surprised that a Div 2 club hasn't stepped in for him. Be realistic guys - with the wages we're able to offer, we aint going to get players better than Mansell or Lathrope. As for Harding, Torkie Buoy - he's a show pony who certainly does not show strength in tackles. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner he goes the better and good riddance !![/quote]

I'm sorry if you haven't realised, Tomogull, but we've been missing a forward who can actually put the ball in the net for a while now, so any 'freed up cash' like I said will surely be viable to put into this- because even a reduced wage is still a wage. As for Harding, that's a rather harsh statement to make: the man's only played 19 games for us, probably 6 of which the side actually had a small amount of confidence in. Football is mainly mental, it's a confidence game, and if put that back into the side next season I wouldn't be surprised to see Harding prevail.[/quote]

Everyone who goes to Plainmoor knows that we desperately need a half-decent striker ! The point I was trying to make was that I'd rather we'd freed up cash by Harding moving on than Mansell. I have no idea what their new contracts are. Although Harding will be on a reduced wage because of the relegation clause, I suspect it will be more than what Mansell was being offered. On paper, Young looks a very good signing but it would have also been good to have Lee as a squad player (at least) if he had accepted the reduced terms.

I agree that Football is very much a confidence game and often players are more effective in their second season. Ryan Jarvis and Ian Morris, until his bad injury, played much better in their second seasons with us. I hope that will be the case with the 'Transfer Five' if they are still at Plainmoor. My gripe with Harding is that whereas Tonge, Hawley & Benyon were at least putting in an effort, Harding seemed to be coasting through games without breaking into a sweat and pulling out of tackles which he should have won. He came with the reputation from Cobblers fans that 'the game seems to pass him by' and that was very much my impression. Yes - he only played 19 games but it could have been more. He became a bench warmer at the end of last season after CH gave him several opportunities before seemingly deciding that the team was better (or less poor !) without him. Let's hope he does regain the form he showed at Aldershot and Wycombe that others have mentioned although it's interesting that the Shots have gone for Lathrope as a midfield option instead of one of their former 'heroes'. Time will tell of course .....

tomogull wrote: 'Freed up cash' for what ?? Personally, i am sorry to see both Mansell and Lathrope leaving (if the Dave Thomas paper talk is correct in Lathrope's case) because even if Mansell was not a regular in the side, he'd be a damn good option to have on the bench. Lathrope is a decent defensive midfielder and I'm surprised that a Div 2 club hasn't stepped in for him. Be realistic guys - with the wages we're able to offer, we aint going to get players better than Mansell or Lathrope. As for Harding, Torkie Buoy - he's a show pony who certainly does not show strength in tackles. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner he goes the better and good riddance !!

I'm sorry if you haven't realised, Tomogull, but we've been missing a forward who can actually put the ball in the net for a while now, so any 'freed up cash' like I said will surely be viable to put into this- because even a reduced wage is still a wage. As for Harding, that's a rather harsh statement to make: the man's only played 19 games for us, probably 6 of which the side actually had a small amount of confidence in. Football is mainly mental, it's a confidence game, and if put that back into the side next season I wouldn't be surprised to see Harding prevail.

Opta certainly connect stats at our level, and obscure ones at that. Email them, see what they've got.

Matt.

I wouldn't have thought so, Scott. OPTA, who do the stats for the Premiership must have live feeds have to have people clicking buttons for each moment of play.

I saw an article a while back and it's interesting how they do it. They have 3 people on each game with individual assignments, so one will look at passing, one for goals and shots with another for defensive duties. I think this was the case anyway, perhaps slightly different but it was a while ago that I read it.

To do that for the whole football league though would require a lot of man power.

Just out of interest - is there anybody around who would keep details of passes attempted/completed, key passes, key tackles, tackles attempted/won etc.

I'm interested to know who "excelled" last season.

No reason other than curiosity. I've had a quick look on google but, like U2, I (still) haven't found what I'm looking for.

glad mansells gone to be honest.

Good deal for all concerned. Mansell was a shadow of his former self last season, and didn't warrant a better deal than the one we reportedly offered him. But a new challenge might reinvigorate him. I'm willing to bet Rovers fans will be more positive about him next season than we have been and he'll doubtless do well against us. But that doesn't make the decision to let him go the wrong one. Cheers for you efforts Manse, and good luck.

Of course he did. Just like they all do. He's looking forward to the new challenge (just like they all are). He's had a great time at a great club with great fans (just like they all say) and he definitely, absolutely, 100% has gone because he's excited by the challenge and it's totally, completely got absolutely **** all to do with being offered more money there than he was offered here (just like it never is).

The PFA might just as well write a template statement and simple post it on Twitter once a week to cover all player moves.

Matt.

Howe got rid of himself.

Matt.

IlshamSchmilsham wrote:Spot on Rjc. I'm convinced that our midfield was the weakest link throughout last season. I am not persuaded that each of the many forwards who struggled to score goals was terminally useless - surely more than a coincidence - or that the sequence of 1-0 defeats, particularly towards the end of the season, was solely the fault of a poor defence. I'm sorry to say that our midfield 2 (or 3, or 4) neither created sufficient chances for our attackers nor provided adequate support for our defenders. Much though it pains me to say so, the weakest link within a very poor midfield structure was Lee Mansell. That may be because he was trying too hard to compensate for the inadequacies of those around him, or the system within which he was being asked to operate, but to suggest (as some or doing) that CH has been unwise to offload him flies in the face of the reality of last seasons's experience - sentiment, of course, is another matter entirely. But sentiment doesn't put points on the board.

Dave B

Can't agree the previous manager got rid of Howe and Jarvis and replaced them with two visually impaired strikers having the problem could not see the goal.We created loads of chances and they could not put the ball away not even from the penalty spot. Mansell did not have the players around him as nearly all had lost confidence by Christmas and he stuck out like a sore thumb because he tried to hard as you have said. Benyon missed easy chances and Hawley was embarrassing at times and only when Hargreaves signed Goodwin and the Spurs striker did we look like scoring.

Given the terms, that's really a distinction without a difference.

Matt.

Hargreaves didn't actually offload him though - he offered him new terms which Mansell chose not to take. Thats hardly the same thing.

Spot on Rjc. I'm convinced that our midfield was the weakest link throughout last season. I am not persuaded that each of the many forwards who struggled to score goals was terminally useless - surely more than a coincidence - or that the sequence of 1-0 defeats, particularly towards the end of the season, was solely the fault of a poor defence. I'm sorry to say that our midfield 2 (or 3, or 4) neither created sufficient chances for our attackers nor provided adequate support for our defenders. Much though it pains me to say so, the weakest link within a very poor midfield structure was Lee Mansell. That may be because he was trying too hard to compensate for the inadequacies of those around him, or the system within which he was being asked to operate, but to suggest (as some or doing) that CH has been unwise to offload him flies in the face of the reality of last seasons's experience - sentiment, of course, is another matter entirely. But sentiment doesn't put points on the board.

Dave B