Torquay United Fans Forum

Basil 75.

I have always been amazed that clubs right down in the southwest dont get bigger gates.

Plymouth aside you exeter and yeovil are quite isolated for the premier league.

I know league two is not a great draw for anyone , but its always puzzled me that with very little else in the area in terms of larger clubs to draw fans away that you can only achieve what you have been.

As i have said before i have visited plainmoor on a good few occasions and have always had a great weekend as torquay is a great town its just a shame that you dont get the level of support that lesser towns seem to give there team.

Our local rivals colchester are a prime example. A few months back they were looking to go into second spot in league one and yet could only muster 3k and struggle to get more than 4-5k unless charlton etc are in town and that is with a wealthy chairman and a new stadium.

It doesnt always work.

Darlington are the ultimate fail in that respect, but they have a small catchment area dwarfed by newcastle middlesborough and sunderland and it was almost suicide to build a 28k stadium. They now get just 1500 fans rattling around in that stadium which is rediculous.

I actually agree with Southend moving to a new, bigger stadium, as bizarre as it may seem.

Southend are in a do or die situation at the moment - they need bigger revenues to survive in the long term and won't achieve it at Roots Hall.

The two main factors in determining how much of your potential support you will attract on a weekly basis are the current level/performance of the team, but also the stadium. A decent new stadium in the right location does increase support, the difficulty is knowing by how much.

Unfortunately I think the same can be said for Plainmoor, as I think our current ground will only ever attract a fraction of potential support. As a child I admit being reluctant to watch Torquay play and it wasn't really due to the fact we were 4th tier, it was that the stadium looked a bit rubbish and therefore my childhood logic lead me to assume that we were rubbish. Had we had a brand spanking new, fairly sizeable stadium, I would have been more willing to go at the team. So in part at least, I'd hope the new stand will increase attendances, as it will go a bit of the way in regards to solving this problem (although this problem would still exist with the new grandstand).

I do think potential support for Torquay could be pretty large. The South West has few successful clubs to compete with for supporters. There's alot of plastic fans admittedly and people from other parts of the country who support other teams, but these people still enjoy football and if you provide a big enough carrot these people will come through the door as the alternative is not going to football matches at all. Plainmoor however, will never be a big enough carrot, whatever league we are in.

Ferrarilover you make some great points

Unfortunately we will not have any money until we move and increase revenue as there isnt a lot of money to be made just in football so you need concerts shopping centres and non matchday money to bring the club forward.

We have already sold roots hall to sainsbury's and they are eager to be on site as they want to build one of the biggest supermarkets in britain there.

They cannot do so until we are in our new stadium and given that they are impatient and are investing 21 million i think its fair to say that moving and quickly is best for all concerned and that staying is not an option.

Roots hall just isnt big enough to go any higher than a top league 1 side and although the official capacity is 12500 we have never achievd that with segregation and health and safety. We mananged to get 11,700 odd in for a league two game against yeovil a few years back and we havent been able to match that since. Even the visit of chelsea and man utd yeilded a gate of 11,500 respectively .

Imagine the extra revenue would have brought for those games.

I think like most you would be surprised how many fans a successful southend side could get in . We are currently going through one of the worst spells in our history and still draw 5k almost each game.

I agree that 22k is a bit OTT and maybe a 16k dome wouls serve us better but remember it will be built in phases the first being 14k.

Only time will tell but wether we like it or not its gonna happen and we will have to say a teary goodbye to roots hall sooner or later.

ferrarilover wrote: Wanna bet?

Matt.

Yep.

They won't be moving in until 2014/15 at the earliest. Even if they go down this season there is no chance they won't be back up by then.

Jerry wrote:
What happens when West Ham move into the Olympic Stadium and start offering 20,000 "heavily discounted" (or even free!) tickets to watch Premier League football?

Wanna bet?

Matt.

Well, ok Jeff, you obviously know more about this than I do, but it still seems to me that, based on evidence provided by the Shrimper on here and the article on the BBC site, it does seem a vast and unnecessary expense which the club could easily do without and the funds for which could be redirected to more immediately worthy and needy projects.

By the way...

Hi Shrimpy, thanks for taking the time and all that. Have absolutely nothing against your club (other than having to visit your town on some very unpleasant business) and hope that both our clubs can make the playoffs.

Matt.

Jeff wrote:They do suffer a bit from having West Ham fairly close by, but a couple of years decline for the Hammers - which is possible - and a couple of years success for the Shrimpers and a lot of floating supporters will return.

What happens when West Ham move into the Olympic Stadium and start offering 20,000 "heavily discounted" (or even free!) tickets to watch Premier League football?

I don't think Southend building such a big stadium is such a ridiculous idea.

Before I moved to these parts I always assumed Southend was just like an essex Torquay, but I was wrong. It is a massive place (and this is genuine, not tounge in cheek). You're literally in urban sprawl from leigh-on-sea/Hockley areas all the way to Shoeburyness. There is a massive catchment area right on their doorstep, let alone considering anywhere along the A127 towards London or the A130 towards Chelmsford. They do suffer a bit from having West Ham fairly close by, but a couple of years decline for the Hammers - which is possible - and a couple of years success for the Shrimpers and a lot of floating supporters will return.

I do think its a case of "build it and they will come". Swansea and particularly Doncaster are great examples. Brighton are another - the long awaited Falmer is 22k IIRC.

I actually have a little soft spot for Southend. Primarily for May 8th 2004, but I also quite enjoy going there for non-football reasons - its almost a home from home!

10-14k,eh? So what are you gonna do with the 8-10,000 empty seats every week? I don't dispute your attractiveness to the locals, but I'm just not sure it's the best plan when you've got no cash as it is and, like it or not, SUFC are a L2 club.

Matt.

Fair play away day.

My point is this .

If we are still regularly getting 5k in the basement league after being relegated and almost going bust , and having the most hated chairman for years on top of sacking mr southend Steve tilson, then imagine what we would have at a gleaming new stadium with investment to challenge in this league and beyond.

We were woeful last year got relegated and still pulled in a few 10k+ crowds


Im not for one minute saying that southend is a sleeping giant , but im confident that we could be pulling a regular 10-14k in the championship at a new ground.

You can build a 50K seater stadium with fancy flashy lights and a pole dancer at half time for the boys at Southend, but if you can't play on the pitch you are still only ever going to get 5K crowds.

It sounds like you think Southend are one of those clubs who do not deserve to be in League 2...........

Due to no fault of the fans, you have had some shocking board room decisions some where, which has reduced your club to a League 2 outfit.
I remember a few seasons ago visiting S'end as a League 2 club and us getting promoted

I hope in the future it all works out for the fans, but until you start getting bums on seats, the money situation is never going to go away.

Ah, fair play, shrimperama.

Roots Hall will always hold phenomenal memories for me, but ultimately, clubs need to move on. As you say, Swansea are now looking at the Premiership - I don't think they'd be that high if they were still at the Vetch. It's the same with Doncaster. New grounds can have a huge effect on clubs, and I'm sure SUFC will be no different.

Re the new stadium:

A couple of points of note.

The southend catchment area is huge . We have the most populated county in england

We have are averaging 5k this season and when you think about what our fans have been through this season and last its a miracle really

We have lost 50 % of our attendance in just 5 seasons. We were averaging over 10k back in the 2005/2006 season albiet in the championship relegation dogfight in a delapidated stadium that is roots hall

Im sure that once we get into the play-offs we will see regular crowds of 6k+ weekly in the league which is excellent at this level.

The stadium will now be built in 2 phases . 14k horse shoe first followed by a two tier main stand making the dome and 22k

The stadium will push our revenue through the roof as there will be numerous revenue streams to come with the stadium (ie) Shopping centre casino and hotels all linked to the club and its owners not to memtion better corporate boxes that can be used on non matchdays aswell.

The fan base is there and if we build this we will be able to move forward which at roots hall we cant , its just not big enough to do much more than league 1.

Regarding the tax bill. Hrmc are on our case as we defaulted before . There was a meeting this week at the council to agree to a two phased developement which means in effect that work can begin in the coming months and sainsbury's will now advance us more of the 21million they are putting into this project as partners. As a result all future tax will now paid on time .

At the end of the day its all about ambition and we dont want to be a league 2 or 1 club anymore but a permanent fixture in the championship.

Swansea are a similar size to southend and made the leap from the vetch to the liberty and havent looked back since.

ferrarilover wrote:See, I told you I had no business acumen. Still, it seems foolish to continue to plan for a stadium you don't need and possibly will never be able to use for getting wound up. That's a bit like ordering a new car, getting sacked, and buying the car anyway with no way of paying for it.
Interestingly, this does mean they have lost something in the order of 3000 fans for a single divisional drop. By this math, we would have to have sent members of staff to the homes of supporters during the Conference years, in order to produce a negative attendance figure.
Matt.

Reading that link Nick posted, perhaps there is a provision in the agreement/contract with Sainsburys that they have to be out of Roots hall by a certain date to allow redevelopment?

Be a total cluster if it was so :slap:

See, I told you I had no business acumen. Still, it seems foolish to continue to plan for a stadium you don't need and possibly will never be able to use for getting wound up. That's a bit like ordering a new car, getting sacked, and buying the car anyway with no way of paying for it.

Interestingly, this does mean they have lost something in the order of 3000 fans for a single divisional drop. By this math, we would have to have sent members of staff to the homes of supporters during the Conference years, in order to produce a negative attendance figure.

Matt.