by Gulliball » 25 Apr 2017, 19:20
I find it incredible that anyone would not celebrate avoiding relegation this year. Whether we are going to eventually try to regain Football League status or just try to survive our current poverty, we are better placed to do that from the National League than regional part-time football. This coming Saturday is a massive game for us, whichever way you want to look at it.
royalgull wrote: 25 Apr 2017, 16:00
Under no circumstances should it be considered an achievement or more to the point a success. This league is pitiful and we've been a football league club for over 80 odd years, survival in this division is a failure of a season and until the mindset changes from everyone and that includes the fans to not accept seasons like this on the field then we will continually be in these crappy situations.
As a football club at this level Torquay should be one of the bigger hitters, should expect to be in and around the top 6 and anything else should be considered a failure. Because of the disastrous last 5 or 6 years there's kind of been an acceptance of failure around the place and if that's the attitude top to bottom then you'll never achieve anything.
Not sure I understand this argument. What TUFC 'should be' and what we actually are right now are miles apart. With backing, it's fair to say that we should be a top 6 side, unless 6 or more sides are backed even more - with gates of 1800 and no other investment, in the current division, trying to run a full time side on our budget, we should be closer to a bottom six side. Football is about money, and until players turn down £3k a week at Forest Green, or a part-time wage plus footballing wage near their hometown, to sign for £300 a week here, no amount of mindset or 80 years of Football League history will give us an advantage on the pitch.
royalgull wrote: 25 Apr 2017, 16:00
These players over the course of this season have proven in the main to not really be good enough, that's not being overly harsh or nasty it's just fact there are some that are and everyone knows the extra factors going on that has made Nicho's job borderline untenable. i feel for him, I'd love to see him be given a chance to be a manager, he's just been firefighting for 2 seasons, begging and borrowing players to try and fill numbers. i don't blame these current players it's not their fault they aren't good enough to make us a good side and by and large they try their best but I've felt this acceptance of failure has been going on far too long.
It's not the main reason, it's because the previous board couldn't afford to run the football club properly which is why we ended up with this squad and now GI threaten to bury us but if we can sort all that mess out the next thing that has to change is the club's mentality.
Unless the situation drastically improves, which is not massively likely under GI, then who would come in to do a better job under the circumstances? The money, conditions and playing budget would put off any established candidate. You'd end up taking the exact same gamble, on an inexperienced manager, as anyone with experience would be put off. Kevin Nicholson was a highly rated young manager 12 months ago - if he'd walked away then I think he would almost certainly have a better job by now. Staying with us has damaged his career, although a win on Saturday and he'd be just about broken even again. Paul Cox walked away after 10 games, and any manager with a choice would do the same - who is really going to come in and do a 'borderline untenable' job any better than Nicholson has done.
Win on Saturday and we finish with 53 points - in comparison with the budget available to Chris Hargreaves (Tonge, Downes, Pearce, MacDonald, Young, Harding, Chappell, Cameron, Bowman...) who achieved 61 points, without any of the owner issues, transport issues etc... I think there's enough evidence to say that Nicholson is still a promising manager that has earned a chance to manage a club that's not in total disarray, and be judged on how he does then.
I find it incredible that anyone would not celebrate avoiding relegation this year. Whether we are going to eventually try to regain Football League status or just try to survive our current poverty, we are better placed to do that from the National League than regional part-time football. This coming Saturday is a massive game for us, whichever way you want to look at it.
[quote=royalgull post_id=204601 time=1493136015 user_id=233]
Under no circumstances should it be considered an achievement or more to the point a success. This league is pitiful and we've been a football league club for over 80 odd years, survival in this division is a failure of a season and until the mindset changes from everyone and that includes the fans to not accept seasons like this on the field then we will continually be in these crappy situations.
As a football club at this level Torquay should be one of the bigger hitters, should expect to be in and around the top 6 and anything else should be considered a failure. Because of the disastrous last 5 or 6 years there's kind of been an acceptance of failure around the place and if that's the attitude top to bottom then you'll never achieve anything.
[/quote]
Not sure I understand this argument. What TUFC 'should be' and what we actually are right now are miles apart. With backing, it's fair to say that we should be a top 6 side, unless 6 or more sides are backed even more - with gates of 1800 and no other investment, in the current division, trying to run a full time side on our budget, we should be closer to a bottom six side. Football is about money, and until players turn down £3k a week at Forest Green, or a part-time wage plus footballing wage near their hometown, to sign for £300 a week here, no amount of mindset or 80 years of Football League history will give us an advantage on the pitch.
[quote=royalgull post_id=204601 time=1493136015 user_id=233]
These players over the course of this season have proven in the main to not really be good enough, that's not being overly harsh or nasty it's just fact there are some that are and everyone knows the extra factors going on that has made Nicho's job borderline untenable. i feel for him, I'd love to see him be given a chance to be a manager, he's just been firefighting for 2 seasons, begging and borrowing players to try and fill numbers. i don't blame these current players it's not their fault they aren't good enough to make us a good side and by and large they try their best but I've felt this acceptance of failure has been going on far too long.
It's not the main reason, it's because the previous board couldn't afford to run the football club properly which is why we ended up with this squad and now GI threaten to bury us but if we can sort all that mess out the next thing that has to change is the club's mentality.
[/quote]
Unless the situation drastically improves, which is not massively likely under GI, then who would come in to do a better job under the circumstances? The money, conditions and playing budget would put off any established candidate. You'd end up taking the exact same gamble, on an inexperienced manager, as anyone with experience would be put off. Kevin Nicholson was a highly rated young manager 12 months ago - if he'd walked away then I think he would almost certainly have a better job by now. Staying with us has damaged his career, although a win on Saturday and he'd be just about broken even again. Paul Cox walked away after 10 games, and any manager with a choice would do the same - who is really going to come in and do a 'borderline untenable' job any better than Nicholson has done.
Win on Saturday and we finish with 53 points - in comparison with the budget available to Chris Hargreaves (Tonge, Downes, Pearce, MacDonald, Young, Harding, Chappell, Cameron, Bowman...) who achieved 61 points, without any of the owner issues, transport issues etc... I think there's enough evidence to say that Nicholson is still a promising manager that has earned a chance to manage a club that's not in total disarray, and be judged on how he does then.
