Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

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Expand view Topic review: Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by culmstockgull » 27 Sep 2018, 12:27

A few things to add to the ever growing melting pot, Our dear mayor Oliver, he, who at the moment makes the decisions and calls the shots is gone by next spring, Torbay Council has stated to all and sundry they are no longer capable of standing alone and according to a longstanding friend at DCC finance Torbay are actively trying to get County to come charging in and take them back, DCC will not consider this offer until Torbay declares its full financial exposure (debts) which they are at present reluctant to do, and secondly DCC get a cast iron guarantee from central government to cover any costs in such a take back of services and debts , Perhaps that is why meetings are becoming more frequent and possibly back door deals are being considered before Oliver goes or Torbay council goes to the wall.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by merse btpir » 27 Sep 2018, 11:51

That's a good resume of events last night Sue with your unique position enabling that to be presented this morning...

It all makes nonsense of Osborne's talk of a new home for the Club in 2020. Things move at snails' pace with local authorities and there is much more to the equation than simply saying 'yes, we'll build it'

There is a significant new addition to the Gaming International board recently; Thai businessman Phanuthep Brarypaul. Whether that is of any significance to Torquay United and it's future ownership remains open to conjecture but people have to be aware and remain aware that there is now almost £1 million injected into the Club by way of loans engineered by Clarke Osborne and that a day of reckoning will have to be faced.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by TorquayDNA » 27 Sep 2018, 09:28

Soupdragon wrote: 27 Sep 2018, 08:06 Thought people might be interested in my take on a report back I’ve had from the briefing for councillors about TUFC/Nightingale Park etc. To me, there wasn’t much new there at all, except that it’s been the last THREE owners who’ve been after the freehold of Plainmoor. So far as I can work out, CO was told ‘no’ to significant Plainmoor development and pointed towards Nightingale Park, where such development is in line with the local neighbourhood plan. CO’s proposal was for a multi-use stadium; he added residential without any prior discussion with council/TDA.

It appears that the ‘plans’ shown at the recent Mayor’s forum were the first ‘tangible’ things anyone had seen. No-one at the council/TDA has seen any business plan: they’ve been told that the aspiration is for TUFC to be a sustainable ‘lower league/league 1/league 2 club’.

There were, of course, concerns raised by councillors (all councillors from the three wards around Plainmoor: Ellacombe, Wellswood, St Marychurch & Babbacombe were there, among others; no councillors from the Nightingale Park site ward were present). These concerns centred around an unwillingness for council staff to allocate any time to this until a business plan has been forthcoming; wanting to receive evidence that the catchment area would support such a development; wider town centre regeneration issues; and a general backstop of not allowing CO to stick houses everywhere as a basis for delivering any TUFC-led development.

I think one of the main issues is reputational. This council has already been ‘done over’ regarding other major developments, including Oldway, where a pie-in-the-sky proposal came to absolutely nothing and has cost local council tax-payers a huge amount of money for no return whatsoever (on this site, I don’t think there’s a need to repeat who the principal was in that proposed development). There’s a feeling among councillors that this must not happen again. Without wanting to be too harsh, I think that this council, both staff and elected members, have been seen as a bit green and able to have the wool pulled over their eyes over some developments in the past. I think they see that now and are determined not to be mugged again.

This is just my take; happy for it to be triangulated by others speaking to their own councillors and reporting back.
Very interesting, thank you :goodpost:

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by Soupdragon » 27 Sep 2018, 08:06

Thought people might be interested in my take on a report back I’ve had from the briefing for councillors about TUFC/Nightingale Park etc. To me, there wasn’t much new there at all, except that it’s been the last THREE owners who’ve been after the freehold of Plainmoor. So far as I can work out, CO was told ‘no’ to significant Plainmoor development and pointed towards Nightingale Park, where such development is in line with the local neighbourhood plan. CO’s proposal was for a multi-use stadium; he added residential without any prior discussion with council/TDA.

It appears that the ‘plans’ shown at the recent Mayor’s forum were the first ‘tangible’ things anyone had seen. No-one at the council/TDA has seen any business plan: they’ve been told that the aspiration is for TUFC to be a sustainable ‘lower league/league 1/league 2 club’.

There were, of course, concerns raised by councillors (all councillors from the three wards around Plainmoor: Ellacombe, Wellswood, St Marychurch & Babbacombe were there, among others; no councillors from the Nightingale Park site ward were present). These concerns centred around an unwillingness for council staff to allocate any time to this until a business plan has been forthcoming; wanting to receive evidence that the catchment area would support such a development; wider town centre regeneration issues; and a general backstop of not allowing CO to stick houses everywhere as a basis for delivering any TUFC-led development.

I think one of the main issues is reputational. This council has already been ‘done over’ regarding other major developments, including Oldway, where a pie-in-the-sky proposal came to absolutely nothing and has cost local council tax-payers a huge amount of money for no return whatsoever (on this site, I don’t think there’s a need to repeat who the principal was in that proposed development). There’s a feeling among councillors that this must not happen again. Without wanting to be too harsh, I think that this council, both staff and elected members, have been seen as a bit green and able to have the wool pulled over their eyes over some developments in the past. I think they see that now and are determined not to be mugged again.

This is just my take; happy for it to be triangulated by others speaking to their own councillors and reporting back.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by merse btpir » 26 Sep 2018, 11:26

I think Hayman's post has been in recognition/a trade off for his shares...

Whether he was in Australia or not is irrelevant; both he and Brian Palk diligently unearthed the Roberts methodology and brought it to attention that it was the Club funding his purchase of shares necessary to take control of the Club which was financial suicide of course.

I very much doubt that Palk has that great a value of shares in the Club, but his involvement and contribution as an unpaid working director was legendary over many years and I agree with you he should 'enjoy' the same status as Hayman and Bristow.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by Tired Old Gull » 26 Sep 2018, 11:05

merse btpir wrote: 19 Sep 2018, 20:55 You are aware who the Club's Presidents for Life are, aren't you?

Thea Bristow and Ian Hayman ~ Hayman was a director in the Bateson era and pro-active in bringing about the exposure of the Roberts regime. He was co-opted onto the ' Rowe Board' and I'm pretty certain was the man who brokered the participation of the Bristows within that initial set-up.
A shame Brian 'Palky' Palk is not also recognised - he did a great deal behind the scenes for the Club.
I understood Hayman was away in Aussie watching England cricket whilst Rome burnt under Roberts!

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by merse btpir » 19 Sep 2018, 20:55

You are aware who the Club's Presidents for Life are, aren't you?

Thea Bristow and Ian Hayman ~ Hayman was a director in the Bateson era and pro-active in bringing about the exposure of the Roberts regime. He was co-opted onto the ' Rowe Board' and I'm pretty certain was the man who brokered the participation of the Bristows within that initial set-up.

He is a United man through and through and done more than any other to maintain the existence of the Club through some very dark years. I'm sure he was instrumental in Clarke Osborne becoming involved during the Philips' regime and recently transferred a tranche of his shares to Osborne (taking Osborne's shareholding from c74% to over 90% which was the tipping balance in taking the club further into the almost exclusive domain of the man so that he now no longer needs to be so transparent in it's declarations.

I am sure Ian has done this for reasons that (in his considered view) assure the club of continued capitalisation as it continues to operate at a loss and has become the irretrievable possession of Osborne.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by Tired Old Gull » 19 Sep 2018, 20:02

merse btpir wrote: 19 Sep 2018, 19:18 Anything I post is not demonization but pointing out the actuality of the situation...
I am not denying Clarke Osborne is a business man and that the Club should (and must) be run as a business and this is what the two people who now sit in the directors seating at matches as 'Presidents for Life' patently failed to do during their time in possession of the responsibility of running the club.
Are these the same two who fiddled while Rome burnt under the Robert's era Merse?

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by merse btpir » 19 Sep 2018, 19:18

culmstockgull wrote: 19 Sep 2018, 18:19Regardless of his motives, he is no super rich white knight, Torquay United is a business venture, nothing more nothing less, whether that is a good thing for the United purists is yet to be written, judge him on what he does at United in comparison to other owners and so called chief executives we have had.
Anything I post is not demonization but pointing out the actuality of the situation...
I am not denying Clarke Osborne is a business man and that the Club should (and must) be run as a business and this is what the two people who now sit in the directors seating at matches as 'Presidents for Life' patently failed to do during their time in possession of the responsibility of running the club.

It was pointed out soon after the return to the Football League under Paul Buckle and Alex Rowe's board, that the club was being run in an unsustainable manner with no effort to lessen the very necessary capital injection to cover operating losses in favour of seeking additional revenue streams and business income; and that is how it continued throughout under the muddled ownership of Thea Bristow. She now sits there almost revered beside Ian Hayman and their escorts uncriticised by the local doyen of the press, Dave Thomas and I can't help but feel every time I see this that a large portion of protectionism and denial of the actualite is going on.

The whole point of the continuation of keeping on the front page what Clarke Osborne and Gaming International have been involved in over the past thirty years with sporting venues, is all about keeping people's feet on the ground and not allowing them to be seduced by a person who has yet to produce one single project such as he is talking about for Torquay United.

People closed their eyes to the profligacy of the previous era before the ruination of the last regime's ticking time bomb that had been indecently handed to them on a red hot plate by Thea Bristow and the rump of her outgoing board; surely it cannot be allowed for further delusion to continue in the manner that it had and in the manner that the Herald Express would have us believe.

If only judging Clarke Osborne on what he does at United in comparison to other owners were that simple ~ it is not; as most people are coming round to the notion have become aware of.

Yes; Clarke Osborne saw an oportunity of a land grab and fed the monkeys of the last board enough peanuts so they would become incapable of hanging on in their tree any longer. Yes; there has to be an end game (and a profit) for him and yes; Gaming International have capitalised the running of the Club to the tune of c£1 million in the manner of loans (not share purchase) and more than likely been able to set that off against tax demands on other operations within the group. To that end; they are behaving no differently than when they were propping up the Dave Phillps board.

But what we are talking about here (and always have been) is the avoidance of allowing the Club to go down the road that Coventry City did, which your local MP knows plenty about; and the disadvantages of being willing partners to ceasing to be a local authority tenant in favour of being a private one of Gaming International.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by culmstockgull » 19 Sep 2018, 18:19

I am no apologist for the chairman but It is interesting to see the demonization of Osborne, part factual, part fiction, all of it based on his previous history, none of it giving credit for his continued bankrolling of Torquay, yes he gave money to the idiot Phillips and his crew, possibly, even probably being fully aware they would never be able to pay it back and he would get the club on the cheap, he is first and last a businessman who sees a profit in every venture, that is the way he operates, he admits to not being a football guru or more importantly a lifelong Torquay supporter which is probably why he employed the idiot that is Harrop. he has no emotional ties to the club whihc may be a good thing where you can make effective decisions unhindered by emotional ties.
Yes, he may wish to develop Plainmoor subject to another venue being constructed, well I do not see the profit in that, assuming and its a big assume that a new ground materialises within three years that means he has probably forked out close to a million of his own money to keep us going season on season, what price terraced or semi detached houses on Plainmoor, well in excess of what the local housing stock goes for at the moment when you take out the construction costs so no profit there, more likely he would hope for a land swap with the sports pitches at Quinta where house prices would be six times the value of anything on Plainmoor.
Regardless of his motives, he is no super rich white knight, Torquay United is a business venture, nothing more nothing less, whether that is a good thing for the United purists is yet to be written, judge him on what he does at United in comparison to other owners and so called chief executives we have had.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by merse btpir » 19 Sep 2018, 12:06

PhilGull wrote: 19 Sep 2018, 09:32 Or, to be more realistic, there will be no stadium, just houses for CO to make his money from before ditching the club.
A bit like Swindon Speedway then who are unfortunate enugh to be his tenants.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by Yorkieandy » 19 Sep 2018, 09:43

Neal wrote: 19 Sep 2018, 08:57 I think the point is that if/when we move to a new stadium, receipts from car parking will go straight to club to invest in the football team so we can be a successful football team.

Perhaps all the receipts from all the other activities at the stadium which generate income will also go straight to whoever owns the actual football club.

Splitting my sides with laughing at those assumptions.

BUT..... CO could easily come and state NOW that I'm totally wrong and in the tenancy agreement we have these:

1) Current rent / terms and conditions we have at Plainmoor will be the same at a new stadium
2) Any income generated by that stadium will go to the football club, not a third entity.
3) That this tenancy is in place BEFORE Plainmoor is developed

A very easy commitment to make, and it would put people with views like me well on the back foot.
Yeah i get that. As most people do but we're being told we don't get it. :-o

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by PhilGull » 19 Sep 2018, 09:32

It all depends on where CO sees the most value. One could make a case that he will make the bulk of his profit from the housing and the whole stadium complex will be sold as a whole with the football club, greatly improving the club's sale value and giving it some guaranteed income in to the future. Alternatively the stadium and club could be sold separately with the club paying rent to the stadium owners and not receiving a penny from any of the ancillaries. Or, to be more realistic, there will be no stadium, just houses for CO to make his money from before ditching the club.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by Southampton Gull » 19 Sep 2018, 09:22

Somehow Neal, I doubt we will ever be on the back foot with him.

Osborne meeting with Kevin Foster MP and Cllr

by Neal » 19 Sep 2018, 08:57

I think the point is that if/when we move to a new stadium, receipts from car parking will go straight to club to invest in the football team so we can be a successful football team.

Perhaps all the receipts from all the other activities at the stadium which generate income will also go straight to whoever owns the actual football club.

Splitting my sides with laughing at those assumptions.

BUT..... CO could easily come and state NOW that I'm totally wrong and in the tenancy agreement we have these:

1) Current rent / terms and conditions we have at Plainmoor will be the same at a new stadium
2) Any income generated by that stadium will go to the football club, not a third entity.
3) That this tenancy is in place BEFORE Plainmoor is developed

A very easy commitment to make, and it would put people with views like me well on the back foot.

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