Torquay United Fans Forum

Midlandgull wrote: 10 Feb 2019, 17:26 How are these banning orders actually enforced even at Plainmoor anyway? Seems like quite a challenge to recognise a number of people who are banned in my opinion.

I think a simpler solution going forward is to make sure there is adequate stewarding and checks are done before entering the ground (particularly Woking and Chippenham) - any pyro you can't come in. Any trouble on the day you're out.

This group knows they can get away with their presence going the Cotswolds and historic bath. Probably have to add Weston. But where they there at tranmere last season or Wrexham. The answer is no because they would know the consequences.

How are these banning orders actually enforced even at Plainmoor anyway? Seems like quite a challenge to recognise a number of people who are banned in my opinion.

I think a simpler solution going forward is to make sure there is adequate stewarding and checks are done before entering the ground (particularly Woking and Chippenham) - any pyro you can't come in. Any trouble on the day you're out.

Basically apart from being banned from plainmoor, and they don’t travel by the supporters travel club. They will be at Woking and Chippenham.

taxilady wrote: 09 Feb 2019, 13:18 I spoke to one of the cops to find out why he was there; & remarked that the cops at Bath hadn't done much. He said he'd been at Bath ![highlight=yellow]However, I wasn't of interest to them![/highlight]

That does surprise me Nina.
Obviously the Plods didnt do their research and have the intel........

I spoke to one of the cops to find out why he was there; & remarked that the cops at Bath hadn't done much. He said he'd been at Bath !However, I wasn't of interest to them!

You re probably right Dave. That wasnt happening at home games before the Bath game so i guess it was a reaction from that.

SBP wrote: 08 Feb 2019, 13:37 Anybody entering the Popside for the last home game would have noticed the Police with the Stewards on the inside looking to identify anybody entering that was of any interest.

The irony being that these type of fans rarely go to home games. A lot of the younger ones do but my information is that it was in the main fans of a previous era that turned up to co-ordinate and cause problems.

Anybody entering the Popside for the last home game would have noticed the Police with the Stewards on the inside looking to identify anybody entering that was of any interest.

With the size of our crowds I would say every game. It's a condition of security for a club like ours. I know it's run the same way at Eastleigh as I was asked to run it for them. It's the same at Wembley and other stadiums. People will still flout the order and enter the ground but if identified they will get removed. I guess it depends on how good your security operator is and how good the club are at producing the information needed to enforce the order.

Court imposed ones are much more serious obviously and as I said would be most likely to end in jail time for anyone breaching it. If the club are serious and feel they have the evidence they would impose their own ban and should then pass the information to the Police who would then decide whether to seek court proceedings to attach the order.

I get where you're coming from but it's a lot more organised now than ever before and with the authorities looking to tighten up on the type of staff employed in security roles. At Hampton they use volunteers for low key games but use my friends company for games like our one up there. I got a briefing from the stadium manager and then briefed my staff. We had one on an FA banning order who turned up at 1.45pm and after he tried pushing past one of their volunteers was held by us until a PC arrived. He decided to let him go on his way as he said he just wanted to use the toilet blah blah but I've seen fans try the same at Reading and at West Ham and they both got prison sentences. It's a pretty serious offence to disregard a court order. At the end of the day it will depend on how serious the club are to rid themselves of that element and whether they want to draw more attention and publicity by pursuing Police action. Licenced premises usually try to avoid using the Police because it then brings Licensing down on them.

Southampton Gull wrote: 08 Feb 2019, 12:11 The way it works is that all security will have a briefing prior to their shift starting. Photos of fans on banning orders will be passed about and if recognised the response team will be tasked with ejecting the individual or holding him until the police deal with him/her.

Security isn't all about being able to punch a blokes face in. There won't be any 14 year olds doing it as you now need an nvq in Spectator Safety or be working towards one to be able to work in stadiums or licenced events even as a steward. Response teams have to be SIA registered so would mainly consist of Doormen or Close Protection qualified operators like myself.

Huge difference between a court imposed banning order and a club allocated one but both can be enforced.

How much of that is really going to be applied on a wet Tuesday night at Plainmoor?

The way it works is that all security will have a briefing prior to their shift starting. Photos of fans on banning orders will be passed about and if recognised the response team will be tasked with ejecting the individual or holding him until the police deal with him/her.

Security isn't all about being able to punch a blokes face in. There won't be any 14 year olds doing it as you now need an nvq in Spectator Safety or be working towards one to be able to work in stadiums or licenced events even as a steward. Response teams have to be SIA registered so would mainly consist of Doormen or Close Protection qualified operators like myself.

Huge difference between a court imposed banning order and a club allocated one but both can be enforced.

Southampton Gull wrote: 08 Feb 2019, 11:15 I'm talking about a court imposed banning order. The club imposed ban would work like Pubwatch where it IS then up to security to locate and eject.

Court imposed bans are a different matter even though at NLS level they are harder to enforce than in the Premier League, where all kinds of technology like crowd surveillance, supported by a strong police presence, are utilised. However, club imposed bans are merely an ineffectve nod in the direction of the problem. The security, such as it is, have neither the means nor the inclination to enforce such bans: the kind of mindless moron who has been banned is not going to be intimidated by a 14 year old girl in a yellow jacket which is 3 sizes too big, even if she is well-informed enough to realise that he should not be in the ground.

I'm talking about a court imposed banning order. The club imposed ban would work like Pubwatch where it IS then up to security to locate and eject.

Southampton Gull wrote: 08 Feb 2019, 10:49 It's not so much about enforcement by security, if someone is caught breaching it they would almost certainly end up in prison.

If they are caught breaching a Torquay Utd imposed ban the worst that would happen would be ejection from the ground, and with the stewards at Torquay even that would be unlikely. The last time Torquay played against Plymouth a well known former Torquay policeman, who was also known as a keen Argyle supporter, was ensconced in the home section of Bristow's Bench. He was wearing Argyle colours and goading the United fans until the stewards were forced to take action. However, all that they did was to move him to the adjacent away section of the Bench, when according to the Plainmoor ground rules he should have been ejected. When the stewards are that ineffective there is no chance that they would seek to enforce any club bans.

Issuing banning orders at this level is ridiculous. Just fine these tobies 5 grand to paid within 6 months otherwise they get a year inside.

Most wannabe hoolies will then limit their embarrassing, laughable behaviour to no more than a few insults.

Solves the problem by and large in one fell swoop. No brainer.

That's the problem with today's weak and nonsensical legal system. It doesn't come close to even addressing a problem let alone solving it.

Draconian punishments for casual offenders stops most of them in their tracks because i'm sure they do have half a brain cell hidden away somewhere and even they (or their parents :Oops: ) wouldn't want to find 5k or do a years bird. The more hardcore offenders well that's a different story but generally most football trouble is caused by slightly errant youths thinking they are ten men and getting carried away. Fine them 5 grand or a year inside and most will behave in future.

You'll never rid the game of the hardcore but nipping it in the bud with younger ones by way of severe punishments will stop most of it.

As it is though the judges give them a slap on the wrist and the clubs issue banning orders that are simply not enforcable and thus this behavior is allowed to continue and to disrupt the enjoyment of games for proper grown ups.

When all said and done though i do believe low level disorder and general disruptive behaviour by a growing number of younger fans at lower league and non league is on the increase again. I've seen quite a few games recently and witnessed appalling scenes at most games so perhaps it is indicative of a nationwide trend and obviously not exclusive to Torquay.