by happytorq » 16 Mar 2023, 16:09
dawlishmatt wrote: 12 Mar 2023, 09:56
So Uncle Clarke is losing up to 1 million quid a year pumping his money into the club. So where exactly does all this money go? The club has 24 players under contract including 18 year old Jack Windsor and 20 year old Olaf Koszela. The average attendance at Plainmoor is around 1,900 which brings in around £34,200 ( £18pp) each match. We play 23 home games a season which brings in a total of £786,600. For this example, let's say that this money is used to pay for off field expenses including non playing staff wages, travel and hotel expenses etc. So the only place that losses come from is the players wages.
£1,000,000 divided by 24 squad members equals a salary of £41,666 per player. If you break this figure down further, that's a wage of over £800 per week. Obviously this is an average figure, some players will be on much more than this and the younger players will be paid less.
Of course nobody knows the true figures and this is just an estimate. I don't think I'm far off and so yet again the people who blame the owner for not giving the manager the funds, we'll £800 a week for playing non league football must put Torquay in the top 10 of the wages league.
A lot of assumptions here that are probably not the case. We have season ticket holders who will contribute to the attendance but will be paying significantly less that £18 a game. I don't know exactly what STs cost, but I'd guess it's about £15 a game, on average. And thats not counting "concession tickets" and Under 18s, which will be cheaper both for STs and for pay-on-the-day. If I had to guess, I'd suggest that the average ticket cost for a home game is somewhere around £16.
You've also not mentioned the non-playing staff that the club employs. Obviously the management and other non-playing football staff are part of it (there are 9 people listed on the website), but there are bar staff, etc. (I think the food places are franchised out, so there's no labour cost there. Although it presumably also means there's a flat revenue from that, too). You've also got a the 'communications officer', and the people who help the club run without getting involved on the playing side. It soon adds up.
You've also assumed that all of that million a year loss (think it's a bit less on the most recent accounts, but that's mostly irrelevant for this excercise) is going on players. What about massively increased energy costs? Running the stadium costs money. Police presence has to be paid for. You've got to make sure the floodlights are on (i saw somebody else mentioned that we get it subsidised, which is news to me), and the heating/showers work in the changing rooms. Stewarding? I believe that costs money.
If you look at the playing side you could go through all 24 and make a case that at least half a dozen of them haven't provided the value for money you might expect. Dan Martin has been injured all season. Hall has been in and out. Crowe hasn't been sighted recently. But that's just part of having a playing squad. (you could definitely make the case that if Martin and Hall had been able to play 25 games each this season we'd already be safe)
I would appreciate some transparency from the club about the budget, but we're never going to get it. Johnson won't say anything (if he hasn't by now), and we know the owner likes to sit in his cave not saying a word. I very much doubt we have a top 4 budget but equally I'd assume we don't have a bottom 4 budget. Have said elsewhere that I do firmly think the plan this year was to bed in new signings, allow Wrexham and Notts to bugger off, and then hopefully have the nucleus of a good team next year. Clearly that hasn't worked and now we're worrying about Dorking's results all week.
Anyway -
if we go down the budget will surely have to be reduced. I suspect that'll mean no Moxey, no Hall, probably no Lapslie (I think his contract will be up), and possibly Halstead will leave - he's arguably done enough to get a deal another NL club if he wants.
We'll presumably have 4 or 5 of the players brought in last summer still under contract (at a guess - Jarvis, McGavin, Hanson, Donellan, possibly Crowe). We'd probably offer deals to Moyse, Tomlinson and Koszela on the 'youth' side - because they're likely to be inexpensive - and consider keeping Omar, Marshall, Martin, if we can agree a contract length/amount. Of course, they could fancy their chances elsewhere but all of these have questions to answer and I can't see too many clubs lining up to take them, especially we'd be entitled to a fee for both Omar and Martin if we do offer them..something (they're both under 24 till the autumn). Either way, rebuild incoming - even if we do somehow manage to get out of the shit - yet again.
[quote=dawlishmatt post_id=269221 time=1678614977 user_id=24395]
So Uncle Clarke is losing up to 1 million quid a year pumping his money into the club. So where exactly does all this money go? The club has 24 players under contract including 18 year old Jack Windsor and 20 year old Olaf Koszela. The average attendance at Plainmoor is around 1,900 which brings in around £34,200 ( £18pp) each match. We play 23 home games a season which brings in a total of £786,600. For this example, let's say that this money is used to pay for off field expenses including non playing staff wages, travel and hotel expenses etc. So the only place that losses come from is the players wages.
£1,000,000 divided by 24 squad members equals a salary of £41,666 per player. If you break this figure down further, that's a wage of over £800 per week. Obviously this is an average figure, some players will be on much more than this and the younger players will be paid less.
Of course nobody knows the true figures and this is just an estimate. I don't think I'm far off and so yet again the people who blame the owner for not giving the manager the funds, we'll £800 a week for playing non league football must put Torquay in the top 10 of the wages league.
[/quote]
A lot of assumptions here that are probably not the case. We have season ticket holders who will contribute to the attendance but will be paying significantly less that £18 a game. I don't know exactly what STs cost, but I'd guess it's about £15 a game, on average. And thats not counting "concession tickets" and Under 18s, which will be cheaper both for STs and for pay-on-the-day. If I had to guess, I'd suggest that the average ticket cost for a home game is somewhere around £16.
You've also not mentioned the non-playing staff that the club employs. Obviously the management and other non-playing football staff are part of it (there are 9 people listed on the website), but there are bar staff, etc. (I think the food places are franchised out, so there's no labour cost there. Although it presumably also means there's a flat revenue from that, too). You've also got a the 'communications officer', and the people who help the club run without getting involved on the playing side. It soon adds up.
You've also assumed that all of that million a year loss (think it's a bit less on the most recent accounts, but that's mostly irrelevant for this excercise) is going on players. What about massively increased energy costs? Running the stadium costs money. Police presence has to be paid for. You've got to make sure the floodlights are on (i saw somebody else mentioned that we get it subsidised, which is news to me), and the heating/showers work in the changing rooms. Stewarding? I believe that costs money.
If you look at the playing side you could go through all 24 and make a case that at least half a dozen of them haven't provided the value for money you might expect. Dan Martin has been injured all season. Hall has been in and out. Crowe hasn't been sighted recently. But that's just part of having a playing squad. (you could definitely make the case that if Martin and Hall had been able to play 25 games each this season we'd already be safe)
I would appreciate some transparency from the club about the budget, but we're never going to get it. Johnson won't say anything (if he hasn't by now), and we know the owner likes to sit in his cave not saying a word. I very much doubt we have a top 4 budget but equally I'd assume we don't have a bottom 4 budget. Have said elsewhere that I do firmly think the plan this year was to bed in new signings, allow Wrexham and Notts to bugger off, and then hopefully have the nucleus of a good team next year. Clearly that hasn't worked and now we're worrying about Dorking's results all week.
Anyway - [b]if[/b] we go down the budget will surely have to be reduced. I suspect that'll mean no Moxey, no Hall, probably no Lapslie (I think his contract will be up), and possibly Halstead will leave - he's arguably done enough to get a deal another NL club if he wants.
We'll presumably have 4 or 5 of the players brought in last summer still under contract (at a guess - Jarvis, McGavin, Hanson, Donellan, possibly Crowe). We'd probably offer deals to Moyse, Tomlinson and Koszela on the 'youth' side - because they're likely to be inexpensive - and consider keeping Omar, Marshall, Martin, if we can agree a contract length/amount. Of course, they could fancy their chances elsewhere but all of these have questions to answer and I can't see too many clubs lining up to take them, especially we'd be entitled to a fee for both Omar and Martin if we do offer them..something (they're both under 24 till the autumn). Either way, rebuild incoming - even if we do somehow manage to get out of the shit - yet again.
