Clark Osborne

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Expand view Topic review: Clark Osborne

Clark Osborne

by leetufc » 17 Jan 2024, 20:07

I hope a pheonix club will never be required, however as fans we need to be cautious of what the future holds for our club.

The club accounts to June 2022 show a net debt of £4.1m. Within that we owe over £5m to CO and over £600k in bank debt. Thats 18 months ago so I imagine its already got significantly worse since then.

I can understand why some may view CO as a saviour for when he came in, but I feel very uneasy at the amount of debt our club now owes him. Other clubs have found this out to their peril, and we just need to look at what is happening at Reading for how things can turn with rotten owners.

None of us know what COs motives truly our, but he does not come across as someone who truly has our best interests at heart. Us fans are treated with contempt with the level of comms we get from all levels of the clubs hierachy.

I would much rather we had lived within our means and had owners who had links to the clubs, than being indebted to CO. It may have meant a few more relegations than we have already had, but would it really have been worse than the current position?

Clark Osborne

by swindon gull » 17 Jan 2024, 18:51

If Swindon speedways new stadium is anything to go by we have more chance of r chief scout finding a decent player than a new stadium being built for us. The only reason the greyhound stadium is still there is because of the money the bookies pay to cover it, once that finishes then u watch that get knocked down quicker than r hopes of going up this season.

The land around that is already full of houses built and being built and i am sure i read that the showroom houses were open even though there was an agreememt in place with the council that that could not take place until a new stadium was up and running. So any covenant on plainmoor wont mean a jot to Osborne.

Clark Osborne

by Admiral » 17 Jan 2024, 18:20

Whatever happens, I can’t wait for the day we’re free of Osborne, whatever level we’re playing at. Him building a new stadium would be like killing the club and taking away the possibility of resurrecting it.

Clark Osborne

by Cheddargull » 17 Jan 2024, 17:18

I think we can safely say that as long as Torquay United AFC (1921) continues to exist there isn't going to be a Phoenix club, so there is no need to think about it now.
The next instalment in this saga will come when CO decides to relinquish the club until then there is nothing the fans or the TUST can do but hope.

Clark Osborne

by The Great Muta! » 17 Jan 2024, 15:44

I know a lot of clubs have done it, but I just cannot see a phoenix club AFC Torquay or whatever working out, I wouldn't be confident of this working out and ultimately ending up back in the league, our best hope is that someone buys it from Clarke Osborne (I haven't been drinking, being serious) or somehow we do an Exeter City and become fan owned or part owned ..Sadly in this day and age just having a local businessman at the helm isn't enough,I know CO has all these plans and ideas regarding being a EFL club with a new stadium, but it feels light years away, I just don't know what the answer is, GJ is going nowhere anytime soon, It's gone very stale at the club and I feel there needs to be huge changes from top to bottom

Clark Osborne

by Cheddargull » 17 Jan 2024, 13:07

Dave wrote: 17 Jan 2024, 09:51 if we want to talk about economic depression take a look at Halifax, if they can do it, anyone can.
Halifax might be a case of watch this space for us. Calderdale council, the owners of The Shay are looking to sell it to rise funds and while they say they would like the Football and rugby league clubs to take it on there is no knowing what will happen if either club cannot afford it.

Clark Osborne

by Dave » 17 Jan 2024, 09:51

For a start those of us who've talked about a phoenix club are well aware, and we should all be aware there will be no need for a phoenix club while Clarke Osbourne remains invested in TUFC, this thought process is about what happens if he doesn't, and no new investor is found.

I think sometimes us TUFC fans have a general trate of looking at things from a negative, glass half empty stand point, we've got this tendency to talk about the phoenix clubs that didn't work out, rather than those that have.

Looking at that list we can see Newport, Wimbledon and Accrington all in the EFL, we can see Aldershot, Gateshead and Halifax all NLP, and if we want to talk about economic depression take a look at Halifax, if they can do it, anyone can.

Then we look around the level we're at which is NLS/NLN same step level, we see Maidstone in the South, and Scarborough A, Hereford all sat in play-off places, with Chester just a few points behind, so not out of the question depending on how everyone's season finish's of course, we could have 8 phoenix football clubs playing at a higher level than us.

So add to yesterday's question. What are some of you so scared of, in the talk of a phoenix Torquay Fc ?

Clark Osborne

by Brewers boy » 16 Jan 2024, 12:29

standupsitdown wrote: 15 Jan 2024, 19:29 Here's a list of phoenix clubs.
You could add FC United of Manchester who started from nothing but with a core of several thousand Man Utd fans.
Mixed success but clubs of our size have made it back to the Football League.
Obviously a far better option would be for Osborne to cut his losses, sell the club for a nominal amount and walk away.

Original club Phoenix club Year established
Merthyr Town F.C. Merthyr Tydfil F.C.[31] 1945
Willand Wanderers F.C. Willand Rovers F.C.[32] 1946
Accrington Stanley F.C. (1891) Accrington Stanley F.C.[33] 1968
Gateshead A.F.C. Gateshead F.C.[34] 1977
Newport County Newport County A.F.C.[35] 1989
Aldershot F.C. Aldershot Town F.C.[36] 1992
Wimbledon F.C.a AFC Wimbledon[37][38][39]
2002
Emley Emley A.F.C.[40] 2005
Hornchurch F.C. A.F.C. Hornchurch[41] 2005
Scarborough F.C. Scarborough Athletic F.C.[42] 2007
Farnborough Town F.C. Farnborough F.C.[43] 2007
Halifax Town A.F.C.[44] F.C. Halifax Town[45] 2008
Fisher Athletic F.C. Fisher F.C.[46] 2009
Chester City F.C. Chester F.C.[47] 2010
Ilkeston Town Ilkeston F.C. 2010
Merthyr Tydfil F.C. Merthyr Town F.C.[31] 2010
King's Lynn Town F.C. King's Lynn F.C. 2010
Rushden & Diamonds F.C. AFC Rushden & Diamonds[48] 2011
Windsor & Eton F.C. Windsor F.C.[49] 2011
Croydon Athletic F.C. AFC Croydon Athletic[50] 2012
Llanelli Town F.C. Llanelli Town A.F.C. 2013
Hereford United F.C. Hereford F.C.[51] 2015
Ilkeston F.C. Ilkeston Town F.C. 2017
North Ferriby United A.F.C.[52] North Ferriby F.C.[53] 2019
Bury F.C. Bury A.F.C. 2021
Rhyl F.C. C.P.D. Y Rhyl 1879 2020
Macclesfield Town F.C. Macclesfield F.C. 2020
South Shore F.C. South Shore F.C. 2021
(to start play in 2022–23 season)
Whyteleafe F.C. AFC Whyteleafe[54] 2021
There are also a lot of clubs that have gone bust and just disappeared of the face of the earth.

Clark Osborne

by Dave » 16 Jan 2024, 11:01

For a start some above opinion on Bury and Macclesfield is overly harsh, for a start I believe phoenix Bury FC are only in their 2nd season, however are 1 point off the top of their league and no doubt with the local backing they have will bounce up through the non-league pyramid fairly quickly, Macclesfield are 5th in their league, 4 promotions off the EFL, so only 2 levels below us, and they're in the 5th round off the FA Trophy better than what we managed.

I expressed my opinion on phoenix Torquay Fc back in August, so I totally agree, said it back then, NLS with maybe the odd yoyo into the NLP would be the celling. 14 Months or so, ago, I would have been one of the first to jump in and say NO to a phoenix club, however my opinion on this has changed, we've got a football club that's rotten to it's core, we have an owner, local board and manager who cosied up together for a Q and A while smirking at fans opinions, telling us their plan grow the club revolves around sprinkling some 'one club united' fairy dust, while all of them GJ included without exception are overseeing abject failure and incompetence, and a local community that points towards Plainmoor and laughs.

So what's so great about the Torquay United FC that we have floundering around now ?

Yes a Phoenix Torquay would have to re-start around the South West Counties level, it would require a lot of hard work and patience, but as I've said before if the fans owned a stake in it, why wouldn't they want to put the work into it, and given a chance for the local community to help rebuild the club, it could something the community would want to get involved with and be proud of, rather than poking fun out of.

Would a Phoenix Torquay work ? I don't know, the list above points towards more relative success than failure, however a Phoenix Torquay has to be better than what we have now , so the sooner CO walks away the better.

Clark Osborne

by Dave » 16 Jan 2024, 10:36

culmstockgull wrote: 15 Jan 2024, 13:10 but realising it must start from the bottom up, a complete reorganisation of the club, certainly while we remain in the south, scrap the youth system by accepting that the local football league clubs will snap up the best talent way before johnsons brother has got out of bed, the way we operate at the moment is crisis management week to week, we have known since before christmas our forwards are injured but it took until the second week of january to source someone who lasted three minutes and will probably never be seen again, that is not football management, that is panic buying of the worst kind, I do hope that the likes of edwards and above will seek some advice from their peers at other clubs who have a football based education and background, as a suggestion get Warnock in for a week as a consultant to tell you what is right and wrong and listen to what he says.He is a straight talker with no axe to grind but his knowledge of football is second to none. what have we to lose.
Agree with some respects. Yes absolutely never build a football club from the top down, always from the bottom up. I wouldn't scrap the current youth system off however even though I don't see the next big thing coming from it, most parents will be paying a monthly fee for their children to attend anyway so there's no harm in it, but as you say Exeter and Plymouth with their proper academies will take the best local talent.

And this where we're talking about building club from the bottom up, I'd put much MORE emphasis on the age groups U16/U18, add a development squad, there are 18-21 year old players all over the country released by professional clubs, eager for another chance to make it in the game, and this is exactly whereby our club could profit from a late developer, a young player developed into the first team and sold on, rather then kidding ourselves something will turn up from what is nothing more than a community training programme.

Or sitting around moaning 'oh woe is I' we can't afford or attract the right players here.

Clark Osborne

by MaxLL » 16 Jan 2024, 09:16

Skillsy wrote: 15 Jan 2024, 22:52
We all want the club to progress but realistically our level is a lower division club, be that League One, League Two or one of the National Leagues.
:-D

Not all clubs are made for the top league. After all, if there are no lower leagues, where will they buy new players from?
Playing a good game with fun is all an average club needs, in my opinion.

Clark Osborne

by WainwrightGull » 16 Jan 2024, 09:15

standupsitdown wrote: 15 Jan 2024, 19:29 Here's a list of phoenix clubs.
You could add FC United of Manchester who started from nothing but with a core of several thousand Man Utd fans.
Mixed success but clubs of our size have made it back to the Football League.
Obviously a far better option would be for Osborne to cut his losses, sell the club for a nominal amount and walk away.

Original club Phoenix club Year established
Merthyr Town F.C. Merthyr Tydfil F.C.[31] 1945
Willand Wanderers F.C. Willand Rovers F.C.[32] 1946
Accrington Stanley F.C. (1891) Accrington Stanley F.C.[33] 1968
Gateshead A.F.C. Gateshead F.C.[34] 1977
Newport County Newport County A.F.C.[35] 1989
Aldershot F.C. Aldershot Town F.C.[36] 1992
Wimbledon F.C.a AFC Wimbledon[37][38][39]
2002
Emley Emley A.F.C.[40] 2005
Hornchurch F.C. A.F.C. Hornchurch[41] 2005
Scarborough F.C. Scarborough Athletic F.C.[42] 2007
Farnborough Town F.C. Farnborough F.C.[43] 2007
Halifax Town A.F.C.[44] F.C. Halifax Town[45] 2008
Fisher Athletic F.C. Fisher F.C.[46] 2009
Chester City F.C. Chester F.C.[47] 2010
Ilkeston Town Ilkeston F.C. 2010
Merthyr Tydfil F.C. Merthyr Town F.C.[31] 2010
King's Lynn Town F.C. King's Lynn F.C. 2010
Rushden & Diamonds F.C. AFC Rushden & Diamonds[48] 2011
Windsor & Eton F.C. Windsor F.C.[49] 2011
Croydon Athletic F.C. AFC Croydon Athletic[50] 2012
Llanelli Town F.C. Llanelli Town A.F.C. 2013
Hereford United F.C. Hereford F.C.[51] 2015
Ilkeston F.C. Ilkeston Town F.C. 2017
North Ferriby United A.F.C.[52] North Ferriby F.C.[53] 2019
Bury F.C. Bury A.F.C. 2021
Rhyl F.C. C.P.D. Y Rhyl 1879 2020
Macclesfield Town F.C. Macclesfield F.C. 2020
South Shore F.C. South Shore F.C. 2021
(to start play in 2022–23 season)
Whyteleafe F.C. AFC Whyteleafe[54] 2021
Great , thanks for that and taking the time :clap:

Clark Osborne

by Wolborough » 16 Jan 2024, 08:54

More about stuffing money into pockets perhaps?

Clark Osborne

by Chelston TUFC » 16 Jan 2024, 05:25

Some of the issues lie with Torbay Council. I'd imagine they had visions of a multipurpose stadium which gave CO encouragement. Its not owners getting their hands on the freehold as much as the council/future councils encouraging opportunistic owners with profitable dreams

Clark Osborne

by standupsitdown » 15 Jan 2024, 20:42

Admiral wrote: 15 Jan 2024, 20:13 Rushden & Diamonds, there’s one we all forgot about. NLS/NLN seems the natural ceiling for phoenix clubs of Torquay’s size without significant outside investment.
I agree that NLS/NLN seems to be roughly the ceiling level unless there is other investment.
Probably because gates of under 5,000 aren't enough to sustain full time football without significant additional money being pumped in.
There is however always the possibility of a generous owner being found at some point and moving forward further, provided the club is kept alive.
That's why I think it's crucial that no owner gets their hands on the freehold of Plainmoor as the ground is key to keeping a club at some level. Clubs who have ended up playing miles from their home in a shared stadium rarely prosper.

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