Torquay United Fans Forum

Would the TUST be in a position to speak with a number of these other Phoenixes’ founders to get a realistic blueprint?

There was a rebirth at Macclesfield when a businessman decided to invest and brought in a sports personality for a 20% in the business. In the business owners own words “I was looking at every opportunity to get multiple income streams into the club to support a first team. I knew we needed a big budget to compete.” He goes on to say “It’s a seven-day operation" spending 4.2 millions just to get it to the starting point. I could go on but I think you get the point - there is no way a club can be successful on a shoe-string budget. Better to use Nuneaton Town supporters phoenix club as an example where without additional investment or new investors to provide financial support, the club is unable to continue trading to which the club said is due to "insurmountable challenges in maintaining operations"

[quote=Admiral post_id=278429 time=1706700067 user_id=23422]
Regarding Macclesfield, they’re now just one step below us after restarting in the NWCL (Western League equivalent) in 2021/22. Their average crowds are significantly higher than when they were struggling for years as Macclesfield Town.

23/24 - Northern Premier (7) - 3126 (so far)
22/23 - Northern Div 1 ( 8) - 3655
21/22 - North West Counties League (9) - 3390

As Macclesfield Town
19/20 - League Two - 1998
18/19 - League Two - 2389
17/18 - NL - 1839 (champions)
16/17 - NL - 1455
15/16 - NL - 1557

Historically they’ve had lower crowds than Torquay season after season. No doubt the crowds in League Two were boosted by away fans too. Just goes to show, even with minimal away fans in the lower leagues owning your own club can reignite attendances.
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Exactly. There would be a huge buzz around a new club which would boost initial interest and with a forward looking manager and a couple of decent players the performances and results could keep people coming. Added to that lower wages and certain other costs associated with playing at a higher level there is the potential that the club could be self sufficient for a time.

I’m not saying it would be easy or even feasible, but I don’t think it helps to write the idea off without some attempt at budgeting.

Regarding Macclesfield, they’re now just one step below us after restarting in the NWCL (Western League equivalent) in 2021/22. Their average crowds are significantly higher than when they were struggling for years as Macclesfield Town.

23/24 - Northern Premier (7) - 3126 (so far)
22/23 - Northern Div 1 ( 8) - 3655
21/22 - North West Counties League (9) - 3390

As Macclesfield Town
19/20 - League Two - 1998
18/19 - League Two - 2389
17/18 - NL - 1839 (champions)
16/17 - NL - 1455
15/16 - NL - 1557

Historically they’ve had lower crowds than Torquay season after season. No doubt the crowds in League Two were boosted by away fans too. Just goes to show, even with minimal away fans in the lower leagues owning your own club can reignite attendances.

I agree regarding crowds, two good examples here would be Aldershot who came back in what from memory was the Ryman sponsored Isthmian League Div 3 (which doesn’t exist now following adjustments to the pyramid), at the time level 8 or may be 9? Macclesfield came back I believe in to the N W Counties League which is about level 9. Both clubs kept very strong levels of support, admittedly both did very well at those levels, but it shows it can be done!

Other clubs have shown that a successful team can achieve good crowds at a very low level. Success on the pitch and the positivity of fan involvement maintains crowds. As we have found, as many if not more will watch a successful NLS team that a poor League Two side. The same would apply to a phoenix club in a lower league.

A phoenix club may or may not occur, I hope we do not have to go down that road but a commercial lease on plainmoor for TUAFC must be upwards of 40/50 grand a year, secondly the lease is for TUAFC not any subsquent phoenix club , negotiating a new lease even on similar terms would put it out of the price range of a phoenix club. Before anyone suggests that the council could do us a favour and give it us at a knockdown price, why should they, they have to maximise their revenues in these difficult times and besides they havent been that forthcoming in support up to now. The council could just build houses on the site and make far more money . If we were really lucky and somehow managed to get into the western league at our first attempt do we wish to remain at plainmoor with two sides permanently closed because of the lack of crowds.
For me even with crowd funding, share sales etc, etc we would still have a major job just convincing the FA that we would be a going concern, thats without even mentioning the day to day runing costs.

I think it is entirely possible to start a phoenix club should the worst happen. My worry is that plainmoor is sold off. I just don't trust any of them.

Only today I read that the councils are being incentivised to dispose of assets to fund their budgets.

We could do with local Torquay united supporters becoming councillors.

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/30/ministers-plan-to-push-english-councils-to-sell-assets-to-plug-budget-holes-condemned[/url]

[quote=culmstockgull post_id=278396 time=1706610284 user_id=24376]
Be careful what you wish for.
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No one’s denying it would be a dire situation, but I’m glad the TUST are planning for this.

Be careful what you wish for.

Does anyone know what the deal is between the club and the council regarding the Plainmoor lease? Presume there is a contract and the club pays rent to the council but would be interested to know what is stopping the council from cancelling the lease or increasing the rate.

[quote=Colorado post_id=278368 time=1706549993 user_id=24884]

What would be the next steps in forming a Phoenix club.

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Hopefully we could apply to join the Western Premier League and play the likes of Brixham and Buckland. Not forgetting all the thrills and spills of the Les Phillips Cup. Who'd be the manager? well we would need someone better than we have got now to manage a penniless 9th tier part-time league side. Cant' wait!

Perfect

Thank you for posting the link.

It is about preparing for the worst while hoping for the best. A lot of hard work has gone into ensuring that TUST is as prepared as possible should the worst ever happen. We sincerely hope that it won’t be needed.

Much of TUST's work has been to research and prepare for the launch of a phoenix club including how finance can be raised in a crisis through Crowdfunding and a Community Share Issue. We have met with the trusts of other clubs which have been through the process and the Football Supporters' Association (FSA) can provide expert assistance.

For more information on TUST's activities visit the FAQ page on our website: https://www.tust.co.uk/faq