Torquay United Fans Forum

by **TommyGunn** » 05 Apr 2024, 16:49

I was rather worried to read posts on the non league forum saying that we may be docked more points if creditors are not paid. I found this in the rules part (e).

Transfer from Insolvency
2.9.2 In the event that any Club that is subject to an Insolvency Event resolves to transfer its
membership of the Competition to a new entity, the Board will use the following
minimum criteria in deciding whether or not to approve that transfer:
(a) The shareholders or members of the Club have voted to agree to the transfer of
the Club’s membership to the new entity and/or a licensed insolvency
practitioner(s) appointed to the Club has agreed to sell or transfer some or all
of the Club’s assets to the new entity;
(b) All Football Creditors in the Club must be Paid in Full and evidenced as such;
(c) The proposed new entity has provided financial forecasts to The FA and the
Competition showing its ability to fund the Club for the next twelve (12)
months or to the end of the Playing Season following transfer (whichever is
the longer) and that evidence of funding sources has been provided;
(d) The FA must have given approval for the transfer to take place; and

(e) All other creditors in the Club must be satisfied and evidenced as such (This
provision to be read in conjunction with 2.9.3 below.)
In the event that requirement (a) and/or (e) is not fully complied with, and only
where the Board, at its absolute discretion, deems there to have been
exceptional circumstances surrounding the application for the transfer, it may
approve the transfer (subject to compliance with all other provisions above)
and may apply such conditions as it deems appropriate including, without
limitation, the deduction of points.

Also I heard we could be relegated anyway by the national league unless creditors are paid before the AGM on 19th June????

by **Osgoodisgood** » 14 Mar 2024, 19:23

Hi Everybody, having followed this forum as a guest for many years I have registered so I can have my two pennysworth! As my username suggests Torquay were not my initial footballing love having been a season ticket holder at Stamford Bridge from 1969-1989. I moved to the bay in 1993 and started watching the Gulls about a dozen times a season on average, I would now say that Torquay are my first love(masocist that I am). My real fear is that a relegation would probably mean we would go part-time, and if that is the case the heady days of playing in the national league will become a distant dream. I hope that I am wrong

by **Jpr** » 14 Mar 2024, 15:59

We can all argue between are self’s, but what’s done is done now, so at this Time we really need to get behind this dishevelled Team and just hope that they can put a run together, PLEASE OH PLEASE. because after this most of them will leave and will move on to other clubs and won’t look back over there shoulder. where we the supporters are left with this mess. Unless we get some Hollywood stars wanting to bye the club then see how many players with family’s from all over the country would move here in a flash to play for us ( well untill we’re bleed dry by them)

by **Southampton Gull** » 14 Mar 2024, 15:58

desperado wrote: 14 Mar 2024, 15:26 Fair enough nobody knows exactly what the budget was this season but surely to God what the likes of Moxey, Hall, Lapslie, Dawson, Halstead, Stobbs, Jarvis, Collins, McGavin are on must dwarf the wages the part timers the likes of Taunton are on.

I don't disagree with you but look at the lack of signings from then on. I think Osborne was already pulling in the reigns from the start of the season. His prerogative of course but that's why we went so long on what we had when every man and his dog could see we needed strengthening, there just simply weren't the funds to do so. Either way I'm not here to defend Johnson. The day Osborne is gone is the day I celebrate. Nothing to do with oracle or being right, it's about never accepting Osborne as some kind of saviour.

by **desperado** » 14 Mar 2024, 15:26

Fair enough nobody knows exactly what the budget was this season but surely to God what the likes of Moxey, Hall, Lapslie, Dawson, Halstead, Stobbs, Jarvis, Collins, McGavin are on must dwarf the wages the part timers the likes of Taunton are on.

by **wbw** » 14 Mar 2024, 15:11

2000 oracles were all saying the same thing. It was hardly a rocket science decision.

by **kerswellgull** » 14 Mar 2024, 14:42

We are so lucky to have an oracle on this site whose opinions and prophecies are always right

by **wbw** » 14 Mar 2024, 14:41

exilegull wrote: 14 Mar 2024, 11:51 This is where I fundamentally disagree with you Dave. Regardless of Clarke Osborne’s motives, he provided additional cash than Torquay United itself generated, or can likely hope to generate in the near term, for the playing side. The playing budget was better off due to Clarke Osborne’s actions regardless of motive. Without those injections Torquay United would have much more likely have tumbled down the pyramid and probably into administration/insolvency some time ago. As it was there was promotion back to the National League and a whisker away from a return to the league -had the club returned to the league it is possible it could stand on its own two feet, given the additional money from the EFL.

I have sympathy for those who say maybe it would be better for this to happen pre-Osborne took over, but personally I wouldn’t have wanted to miss out on that epic season and play off final even if it ultimately wasn’t successful.

I’m not suggesting any gratitude, or sympathy for Osborne by the above - it was a business gamble that didn’t pay off. But I don’t see how that relates to onfield performance.

It’s not Clarke Osborne’s fault the club is now languishing in mid table (pre points deduction) in National League South - that is Gary Johnson’s fault, both for relegation last year and worse the performance this year when he was given a full time playing budget - sure I could accept being behind Yeovil and having a tough competition with top part time sides, but the reality is the season has been utter dross. Regardless of what you think about Clarke Osborne, I don’t possibly see how Gary Johnson can be absolved in any way whatsoever and the fact that club languishes in national league south makes it an even harder proposition to sell and it’s even more of a money pit.

Absolutely blame Clarke Osborne for not sacking Johnson in Jan-23, that I can fully get behind.

Top post! With the full time budgets given to Johnson, any manager with an ounce of ability would have assembled a squad that wouldn't have fallen this far. Should have gone at the start of the January 2023 window.

by **Southampton Gull** » 14 Mar 2024, 14:17

You assume there was a budget fit for a full time professional team, this season there simply wasn't as can be clearly seen by the lack of reinforcements and then a few below bargain basement additions recently.

You also wrongly assume there was no alternative to Osborne taking over when he did. One of those interested parties is again circling the club. Since the very first day Osborne was connected to our club I warned people of his history and what was likely to happen. If you're happy with the ride along with Osborne then that's OK but I can tell you I am totally the opposite.

I could never see any positives to Osborne owning our club and here we are, a whisker away from Southern League football having our hopes pinned on not going the way of other sporting institutions left in his wake. I'm not absolving Johnson of anything but for fans to show him the kind of vitriol he suffered while the skullduggery of Osborne is excused for a few quid, well that just isn't in me to do it.

Weren't you the one who offered the reasoning behind Osborne having a business running at a loss? From memory I think it was, I was never happy with that and if we escape his clutches then I'll be breathing a huge sigh of relief. I've had information passed to me along the way that gave me a good insight into what was going on behind the scenes and none of it ties in with the wonderful history of our club. That just isn't for me which is why I made the decision to stay away. I've just been sat waiting for the final sting and it looks like Osborne has delivered it. Nothing else about his tenure is satisfying to me. You and others can focus on Gary Johnson if you like, I never took my eyes off Osborne.

by **desperado** » 14 Mar 2024, 12:16

Agree with all of that post

by **exilegull** » 14 Mar 2024, 11:51

Southampton Gull wrote: 13 Mar 2024, 21:52 Couldn't agree more and this is why i kept trying to divert the hatred for Gary Johnson onto Osborne and his motley crew of directors.

Some took it as blind support for the Manager when it was nothing of the sort. How anyone can sympathise with Osborne with his history I find bewildering.

This is where I fundamentally disagree with you Dave. Regardless of Clarke Osborne’s motives, he provided additional cash than Torquay United itself generated, or can likely hope to generate in the near term, for the playing side. The playing budget was better off due to Clarke Osborne’s actions regardless of motive. Without those injections Torquay United would have much more likely have tumbled down the pyramid and probably into administration/insolvency some time ago. As it was there was promotion back to the National League and a whisker away from a return to the league -had the club returned to the league it is possible it could stand on its own two feet, given the additional money from the EFL.

I have sympathy for those who say maybe it would be better for this to happen pre-Osborne took over, but personally I wouldn’t have wanted to miss out on that epic season and play off final even if it ultimately wasn’t successful.

I’m not suggesting any gratitude, or sympathy for Osborne by the above - it was a business gamble that didn’t pay off. But I don’t see how that relates to onfield performance.

It’s not Clarke Osborne’s fault the club is now languishing in mid table (pre points deduction) in National League South - that is Gary Johnson’s fault, both for relegation last year and worse the performance this year when he was given a full time playing budget - sure I could accept being behind Yeovil and having a tough competition with top part time sides, but the reality is the season has been utter dross. Regardless of what you think about Clarke Osborne, I don’t possibly see how Gary Johnson can be absolved in any way whatsoever and the fact that club languishes in national league south makes it an even harder proposition to sell and it’s even more of a money pit.

Absolutely blame Clarke Osborne for not sacking Johnson in Jan-23, that I can fully get behind.

by **desperado** » 14 Mar 2024, 11:00

Just looked at goals conceded - only the bottom 3 and Welling have conceded more than our 62 in 37 games ! A shocking statistic.
Absolutely pathetic management that Johnson and Downes couldn't assemble and coach a better defence than that this season !

by **desperado** » 14 Mar 2024, 08:51

With 4/5 games in hand not likely to finish above Truro or Taunton especially after Tuesday ! Dartford who play the top three (and Maidstone) are more likely to stay below us or Welling , we must avoid defeat there, but we have to start grinding out results and somehow shore up our joke of a defence.

by **Stoneybroke** » 14 Mar 2024, 08:04

As it stands now . If Taunton beat WSM tonight ,which as their recent form suggests, they will go 2 points clear of Torquay and still have 3 Games in hand !!!

Truro also have games in hand .....and The Gulls have to play both of them before the end of the season.

Not looking good....

by **knightmaregull** » 13 Mar 2024, 22:44

It's fine to justify CO's actions on business grounds but this conversation is founded on the fact that all.of this has unfolded precisely because his tenure has been a business venture. Not a venture to make money from a football club but instead to make money from land owned (or, thankfully in fact, not owned) by a football club. Some people seem to be losing sight of that.

The footballing side of things that we all care about was always going to be collateral damage ultimately and personally I remain delighted that's finally happened so we can move on to the next chapter. The fact CO seems to have also 'lost' is even better.

Given this inevitable outcome I'd argue on the point above that it would have been better for Philips to have folded the club rather than pass it to CO as all it's done is lost us 6 years.

I can't see any logic in seeking to justify or excuse CO and his cohort for what they sought to do to TUFC and it's community. They should certainly not now be seen as saviours for stepping in at the outset!

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