Torquay United Fans Forum

by **Trojan 67** » 06 Jul 2011, 18:47

Ambition.

Mmmm.

For the downtrodden (the trodden on), the ambition is not to be trodden on any deeper in to the sh't.

Without exception, all are in the sh't. At waist level, at least one is able to steadily wade through it. Then there's up to the neck in it. Smell it ?

Sh't is sh't and smells regardless of the level of its depth. Don't ever let it go over the head.

Then there's walking on shit/walking all over sh't and not forgetting those fully immersed.

Why is it that those who spend their time fully immersed in it and only surface for gulps of air, come up smelling of roses ?

It only appears that way because eyes and ears can be fooled. The nostrils on the front of the face tells the truth : when it smells like sh't it is sh't.

Here's to another season in the sh't and another successful wade through.

by **claw** » 06 Jul 2011, 14:42

At the end of day when supporting Torquay united you have to be realistic. Theres going to be plently of ups and plenty of downs some days look good
others look bad, but that is what you get in supporting a league two club. Which to me is the best bit

by **royalgull** » 06 Jul 2011, 14:34

Alpine Joe wrote:I think the Club is appearing realistic about the forthcoming Season rather than encouraging baseless ambition. Yes of course Argyle looked & sounded far more ambitious than a lot of Clubs what with their 'Blueprint for the premier league' or whatever it was called. But sometimes a more realistic assessment of your circumstances & resources pays greater dividends in the long run.

The progress graph rarely rises in an unbroken upward line, things will level out occasionally or even take a slight dip along the way. Improvement season on season, every time without exception would be nice, but sometimes circumstances just dictate it's not possible. Losing so many key members from a settled line up, finances that aren't altogether rosey, & the disruption & cost of a new grandstand will all take their toll. Lots of new players settling in, a new manager & Coach settling in, it's more a period of everyone finding their feet, consolidating on what's been achieved, & then pushing on again when conditions are more favourable.

I'm all for ambition, but when it manifests itself as unreasonable expectations it can be a hinderance rather than a help.

Excellent summary, fully agree.

by **Alpine Joe** » 06 Jul 2011, 14:32

I think the Club is appearing realistic about the forthcoming Season rather than encouraging baseless ambition. Yes of course Argyle looked & sounded far more ambitious than a lot of Clubs what with their 'Blueprint for the premier league' or whatever it was called. But sometimes a more realistic assessment of your circumstances & resources pays greater dividends in the long run.

The progress graph rarely rises in an unbroken upward line, things will level out occasionally or even take a slight dip along the way. Improvement season on season, every time without exception would be nice, but sometimes circumstances just dictate it's not possible. Losing so many key members from a settled line up, finances that aren't altogether rosey, & the disruption & cost of a new grandstand will all take their toll. Lots of new players settling in, a new manager & Coach settling in, it's more a period of everyone finding their feet, consolidating on what's been achieved, & then pushing on again when conditions are more favourable.

I'm all for ambition, but when it manifests itself as unreasonable expectations it can be a hinderance rather than a help.

by **usagullmichigan** » 06 Jul 2011, 14:14

happytorq wrote:So we're spending money to build on infrastructure, refusing to pay fortunes for players, and selling our assets whenever a bid comes in (sometimes to our nearest rivals.)

Wait a minute....that makes us Arsenal!

Seriously, it's great that we *appear* to making strides off the field - although my own impression is that we could be doing more marketing and community stuff to get people interested - but at some point we're going to have to be able to say "Ok, we've done what we can for the business side, let's make a good football team". Otherwise we're not going to go anywhere.

My worry would be what it has been for year - people in the South Devon assume we have no 'ambition' or that we're happy in the FL basement, so they won't come. Telling people about a grandstand isn't going to get them to show up.

Didn't work for Darlington did it. The promotion in the Torabay community is not even poor at best.

by **tufcbrett** » 06 Jul 2011, 14:12

The club has the ambition to do well, but they are being realistic with the resorces we have. The club is slowly rebuilding from the dark days of the BSP. A new grandstand and training ground will do a lot of good for our club.

Last season i traveled down from cardiff for loads of home games which was more of an away game for me. Now back in Somerset its not so far but still a little way to travel. Just anouys me some people who live in the area wont bother. The fasn who say they wont come because we have no abition make me laugh, if they came and turned up and we got 3-4 thousand fans a game we could have more money to spend on moving the club up.

Its not just the club who need the amition and comitment, it is also needed from fans to help the club with this. Well done to the fans who go week in and also the fans like me who travel lost distance to support the club.

(mind my spelling i cant spell

)

by **happytorq** » 06 Jul 2011, 14:09

So we're spending money to build on infrastructure, refusing to pay fortunes for players, and selling our assets whenever a bid comes in (sometimes to our nearest rivals.)

Wait a minute....that makes us Arsenal!

Seriously, it's great that we *appear* to making strides off the field - although my own impression is that we could be doing more marketing and community stuff to get people interested - but at some point we're going to have to be able to say "Ok, we've done what we can for the business side, let's make a good football team". Otherwise we're not going to go anywhere.

My worry would be what it has been for year - people in the South Devon assume we have no 'ambition' or that we're happy in the FL basement, so they won't come. Telling people about a grandstand isn't going to get them to show up.

by **royalgull** » 06 Jul 2011, 13:59

usagullmichigan wrote:I would not want us to throw money around either but if you were a hald decent player at L1/L2 level would you be tempted to come to us? Its not about money it is about long term. I don't the manager appointed is very ambitious and I don't think signings like Mcphee is ambitious (Though it is an OK signing). I dont think players not being pushed for contracts after January is ambitious nor letting valued assets like Zebs go for the reported figure being touted around. If you were non Torquinian living in Torquay and a gulls fan was trying to get you to go to matches at plainmoor would you?

I love Torquay through and through and played for the under 11's - 16's and before I moved to the states went to plainmoor as often as I could but I am just very saddend by the way its going. Marting Ling has my full support but other than the GK and maybe Saah I think we look we are going to be very heavy in this league this season.

To answer both questions you posed the answer is no to the players one. Torquay due to it's location and the fact they don't pay half as well as a lot of other clubs when you also factor the ground and fairly basic training facilities as current it's hardly enticing to a lot of players. I do think the improvements made to the latter will help somewhat but ultimately players move for success and finance. Two things this club isn't awash with. As a town and area Torquay is great but to play for the club means a mammoth house move and then the travel for matches I have no doubt puts players off. Every away game is a mission that if you played for Northampton for example wouldn't be the same issue.

Hard to answer about the fan one, for me i would go but that's just because i like football and expecially lower league football. It's more honest, it's still good and it's (just about) affordable. But There would be people brought up believing the Sky hype of the Premiershite that wouldn't want to go thinking it's rubbish.

by **Regiment** » 06 Jul 2011, 13:54

usagullmichigan wrote: True Brady. I am a Man U fan aswell but my mum is from Manchester so I am half gulls and half Man U and I used to go to OT alot aswell but I support Torquay like a religion as I was born in Chelston. Torquay is my hometown and no matter what I support them and have paid to go see them even things were real bad.

might sound a bit hypocritical coming from me (london born and bred) but my first taste of live football 30+ years ago was a cold wet boxing day match at plainmoor, and despite going to chelsea, arsenal etc here and there with friends over the years, particularly when i had to rely on public transport in my yoof, if i could get to a torquay match, it was always my first choice, and it's the same now for my 8yr old son. i wish i could be a season ticket holder, and get to every home game but i can't, but it is annoying knowing there are people in torquay (and surrounding areas) who have NEVER been to see torquay play.

by **Boom Boom** » 06 Jul 2011, 13:52

If you want a great idea of ambition then look at Stockport County. Relegated to the BSP yet they've bidded for Ryan Lowe from Bury, 28 goals for them last season in League Two! Also made offers for Jamie Vardy & Sean McConville interestingly.

by **AustrianAndyGull** » 06 Jul 2011, 13:39

agree, i think young kids attending fl games wearing man u, chelsea shirts etc should be refused entry - or at least their parents be given a good kicking round the back of the stand!

by **usagullmichigan** » 06 Jul 2011, 13:38

Regiment wrote:
and how often do these torbay based premiershite fans actually go and see their teams ?? i'm afraid it's this sort of attitude of people not supporting their local club that ensures we never will be any bigger.

True Brady. I am a Man U fan aswell but my mum is from Manchester so I am half gulls and half Man U and I used to go to OT alot aswell but I support Torquay like a religion as I was born in Chelston. Torquay is my hometown and no matter what I support them and have paid to go see them even things were real bad.

by **usagullmichigan** » 06 Jul 2011, 13:34

I would not want us to throw money around either but if you were a hald decent player at L1/L2 level would you be tempted to come to us? Its not about money it is about long term. I don't the manager appointed is very ambitious and I don't think signings like Mcphee is ambitious (Though it is an OK signing). I dont think players not being pushed for contracts after January is ambitious nor letting valued assets like Zebs go for the reported figure being touted around. If you were non Torquinian living in Torquay and a gulls fan was trying to get you to go to matches at plainmoor would you?

I love Torquay through and through and played for the under 11's - 16's and before I moved to the states went to plainmoor as often as I could but I am just very saddend by the way its going. Marting Ling has my full support but other than the GK and maybe Saah I think we look we are going to be very heavy in this league this season.

by **Regiment** » 06 Jul 2011, 13:32

Plymgull wrote:I'm 23 years old and have supported Torquay since 1999, Despite living in Plymouth all my life (family got me into Torquay) i have plenty of friends in Torbay and one of the biggest reasons they give to me when i ask why they support premiershite rather than Torquay is because Torquay have no ambition and will never go anywhere...

Being a small club with an average of 2500(lower recently?) fans there are obvious limits to what we can achieve... but i have always felt that our club has always been satisfied with remaining in league two.

Personally i don't think we would ever get anywhere near the championship in my life time but i'd at least like us to get to league 1 and remain there this time, if this was to mean over spending and end up like Argyle though... then i'm more than happy with a mid table finish in league two.

and how often do these torbay based premiershite fans actually go and see their teams ?? i'm afraid it's this sort of attitude of people not supporting their local club that ensures we never will be any bigger.

by **royalgull** » 06 Jul 2011, 12:57

A good friend of mine is the vice chairman of the football supporters federation and some of the stories he tells about clubs and their spending policies would seriously make you shudder. If football ran by the same rules and ethics as many businesses, we'd probably have about 25 professional clubs left. Seriously there are so many that financially are taking huge huge gambles it's frightening. Even at our level with Crawley who in his words 'The FL are keeping a close eye on because it's widely accepted they are bent as a 2 bob note'.

Chester City are the example we need to look no further than. a very similar club to ourselves in terms of history and status. Who chucked money everywhere chasing dreams and it all ended in a massive disaster, AFC Chester and Evo Stik football. Rushden and Diamonds are the latest one and Crawley will follow suit. Clubs with no fans and no long term income that chase dreams end in disaster. It might not be this year or next year, might be 5/6 years or 10 years down the line but Crawley will end up like Chester, like Rushden, like Gretna and they will be utterly screwed and nobdoy will bail them out.

Portsmouth should have folded and if they did the rest of the football community in this country MIGHT have started taking some action, the fact they got bailed out by the Premier League set a terrible precedent for the rest of football. 'Run your business illegally as much as you want we'll help you when it comes crashing down'. Football needs an established club, not a Chester or a Rushden but a Portsmouth or Cardiff to go to the wall. Only then might we get some change. Football needs to play by the same rules everyone else does and clubs should be really forcefully managed int erms of spending what they generate and no more loans, gambling and borrowing.

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