Torquay United Fans Forum

[quote="highweekgull"]I feel he should have checked a few facts before saying what he did, as if he had asked anyone he would have known that [color=#FF0000]our loan signings DID help us reach the play offs[/color] and without them we wouldn't have now signed Oastler.

Also sometimes a young player at a bigger club can be a massive asset to the team.

However I agree that Buckle did overuse loanees, he couldn't see what he had and always bringing in loan players does upset the harmony and consistency of the team.

So what I would like to see is
making use of the squad we have and getting them playing well together
bring forward the young players who are good enough and show the talent
use loanees if we really have to to make up for injuries or lack of goals, etc

Si[/quote]


SOME of our loan signings helped us reach the play offs, those four being Tomlin, Stanley, Robinson and JOastler. I don't have the numbers to hand, but I'd lay money that PB had no fewer than 24 loanees during his time here. So, only 16.66% of his loanees assisted our playoff push.

I think Dinger will take a different view to PB. Rather than bringing in a nipper in the hope that he gets lucky and the kid is another Nicky Ajose, Ling will use our own nippers and, if needs be, he will be very selective and pick out only established players at L2 level, in the vein of Stanners and Robinson, who are available, not because they are in need of first team action but aren't good enough for their parent clubs, but who are already decent L2 -players, but have had a fight with the manager or some such.

Matt.

I feel he should have checked a few facts before saying what he did, as if he had asked anyone he would have known that our loan signings DID help us reach the play offs and without them we wouldn't have now signed Oastler.

Also sometimes a young player at a bigger club can be a massive asset to the team.

However I agree that Buckle did overuse loanees, he couldn't see what he had and always bringing in loan players does upset the harmony and consistency of the team.

So what I would like to see is
making use of the squad we have and getting them playing well together
bring forward the young players who are good enough and show the talent
use loanees if we really have to to make up for injuries or lack of goals, etc

Si

I always remember seeing last season on Football league show, at quite a few games you seen some small youth/1st season pro player come off the bench to score a winner. I always thought to my self why have we not done this. But this season i can see it, Spear off the bench to score a 81st min winner.

Clearly Buckle was very cautious when it came to use of youth players and a change in attitude is to be welcome. I just hope however Ling isn't about to overplay this card.

At the end of the day its the number in the points column that ought to determine the balance.

Dinger is a former youth coach as is tall Shaun. Why have a youth set up if we are not going to give our young professionals a chance ?

New manager, new assistant, new (old) way of doing things.

I'm looking forward to the new season under new management. :nod:

Bear in mind that the loan market at the start of the season is very different to the loan market in January.

You only get youngsters (bar goalkeepers perhaps) who are in desperate need of experience in the loan market before the season starts - any experienced player would have left in the summer if the club had no intention of using them.

Things change by the time the January window opens - players become out of favour with the manager for various reasons. It's a smaller window and the focus of the manager is only on the season in hand, so it's harder to shift players out permanently (plus loan contract negotiations are much easier and quicker than with permanent contracts due to minimal player/agent input, no medicals etc and the loan window is open a bit longer). As a result, you can pick up decent experienced players, such as Stanley, Robinson and Tomlin in the loan market in January, but not in August.

I see what you mean Monkey, but largely, that is what loanees tend to be down at this level. To pull in the requisite quality (ie, greater than that which is available for us to purchase outright) we have to go to the likes of the Championship and the Premier League and ask them for nippers, since older players are either released or established and unwilling. We got very lucky last year in unearthing Robinson (who had fallen out of favour at Shrewsbury) and Stanley (who was always regarded by Morecambe in the same way that we regard Eunan, far and away too good for this division, but again, personal nonsense between the manager and the player got in the way).
The point Dinger is making is that, perhaps with the exception of a player who is too good to miss (such as Stanners last year) then we won't be making many loan signings, since one raw, untried and untested youngster is very much the same as all the rest, so we might as well give pitch time to our young-uns as those of another club.

He isn't ruling out the loan market altogether, merely suggesting that he won't be allowing TUFC to be used as a training ground for 'up and coming' kids from bigger clubs when he has his own 'up and coming' kids down here already.

Matt.

It could be the case that Ling pretty much has maxed out his budget, and his trying to say there is no manoeuvrability to get anyone else in?

I'm as guilty as anyone for being sucked in by Football Manager. You can get loan players in for free, parent clubs pay 100% of the wages and it's all a no-brainer. But I'm guessing the real world isn't like that - borrowing clubs probably have to pay a "loan fee", then a proportion of the players salary.

I'm wondering whether Ling literally doesn't have the room in the budget to fill the squad with loan players, so will have to rely on what we have to cover all possibilities. Ties in with the fact that we have an inordinate number if utility players and 4 youth team grads with 5 sub appearances between them at senior level.

I'm happy that he is going to use less loans, but my disappointment comes from his comment regarding the loan market "because that is just taking young players from other clubs", which is a worryingly one dimensional view of a valuable source. It's good that he learns from Buckle's mistakes but he must also look at what made him successful.

Ling has got his team together he'll give the the first chance, if it goes tits up or we need that bit extra he'll use the loan market i have no doubts but as we stand we don't need loan signings, and that's definitely a good thing.

had posted this elsewhere, but now it has it's own spot, moved it here :-

good that Ling is not going to blitz the loan market, IMO.

yes, Buckle unearthed a couple of good'uns in the loan market, but we have had some right old tosh as well, and it can affect consistency if you use the loan market too much. Ling has definitely brought in decent signings, and as the squad stands, we're definitely capable of doing well in Div2. of course, should we be hit with injuries, or the "right" player becomes available for loan, i'm sure Ling will look at his options, but once again, i'm impressed with what he's doing. now it's up to the youngsters to take their chance, a chance they probably didn't get under the ambitious one.

Agreed to an extent but he is saying that he will give the players who are here a chance before using the loan market. A good ploy for a much needed confidence boost for those not involved at first.
It is a fine balancing act and I am sure Ling will act as and when he needs to. There will be no knee jerk reactions like we had with Buckle under Ling.

Rather disappointed with ML's recent comments. Totally ignoring the positive impact of last years loanees, who weren't just youngsters from other teams. Surely it would be better to be open-minded about the possibilities of the loan market, as there are circumstances that arise which mean very good experienced players become available for loan, a la Stanley. Giving the youth a chance is all well and good, but they need to prove themselves worthy with their performances in the reserves, if they are not knocking at the door already then the loan market has to be used.