Torquay United Fans Forum

[quote="Glostergull"]come to think of it Dave. How often do Mat and his mummy disagree. I wonder if there was a disagreement on the colour of his [color=#FF4000]buggy[/color]. I mean to say. Bright orange and laces on his trainers to match. now if there isn't a full half hour in that one. what can you do!
By the way.
Have we paid for the 5 minute one or have we got the full Monty[/quote]

Buggy, never had one of those. Far to expensive. Make the bugger walk!! :devil:

come to think of it Dave. How often do Mat and his mummy disagree. I wonder if there was a disagreement on the colour of his buggy. I mean to say. Bright orange and laces on his trainers to match. now if there isn't a full half hour in that one. what can you do!
By the way.
Have we paid for the 5 minute one or have we got the full Monty

Don't argue with your Mother or I will ban you, you naughty boy, Matt.

Haha, I knew I was on to a loser by mentioning Rooney.

Matt.

I have to disagree with you there Matt (agree to disagree *tut* have I not taught you anything Christine).
Wayne Rooney being a "top class player"...?
I can name much better players than Rooney, for example Rene Howe of Torqauy :)

Because we can't play without a referee. In the same way that there aren't enough top class players to have the likes of Wayne Rooney in L2, so we have to put up with Rene Howe, simples.

Matt.

This one could rumble on for ages, so lets agree to disagree. Still does not answer Paul's persistent question though. Why do we have to have dodgy refs in our division. If they are not good enough for the prima donna league, why should we have to put up with them.

Matt - Why should it be though, if a ref makes consistant errors in his decisions that we get them in league 2?

I see your point, but it is flawed in the idea that, to be a top referee is dependant upon little more than simply memorising the rule book. This just isn't the case, it's the application of those rules and the interpretation of that which occurs on the pitch which differentiates between standards of referee.
How often do the two of us (perhaps not all that often, as it happens, but I'm making a point) disagree on whether a particular tackle warranted a booking or not, or whether the correct decision is a goal kick or corner.
We both know that the rule book says that an act of violent conduct results, quite rightly, in the issue of a red card. Those are the rules, simple as, trouble is, what constitutes 'violent'? Is a shove to the chest an act of violence? Or a clip round the ear? It is the ability to distinguish in these grey areas which set apart the best referees from all the rest.

Matt.

No, you dont see my point. David Beckham is capable of hitting a 70 yard pass, with a better degree of accuracy than Manse, because DB is a better player. The rules of football are the same for everyone, so if one decides to become a football official then one must learn the rules of football. If one attains the required standard one should be no worse/better than any other official. The rules are "set in stone" and should be applied, by the official, whether that official attended Oxford University or The Downs Secondary School for Girls in Dartford. (Nothing wrong with that school, by the way) What I am saying is, there is only a certain standard that one can reach, as a player but, unless you are not able to retain knowledge, all officials in football, or any other sport come to that, should reach the same standard.

As Paul said, why should the lower league teams suffer when a ref is relegated from the premiership? The rules are the same in all divisions. Does it mean that only the premiership counts and all football, outside of that , is of no consequence. I dont think so.

[quote="diamondgirl"]But thats what I am saying...the rules dont change, they are exactly the same in the Blue Square as they are in the Premiership. I appreciate that some games are more challenging, to officiate, than others, but in my opinion the men in black ( or blue, yellow, red) should all be of the same standard. They make decisions that could, ultimately, cost someone their job.[/quote]

And what I'm saying is that the fundamentals of the game don't change. So, in exactly the same way that David Beckham is capable of lashing 60 or 70 yard passes time and again with 90% success, Howard Webb is capable of making correct decisions with a 90% success rate. Lee Mansell will make a 70 yarder, which Becks could do in his sleep, maybe one time in 50, in the same way that John Q. Referee in L2 will make the same level of error in his refereeing. The pass is no more difficult because it is Lee Mansell attempting it, in exactly the same way that the rules are no harder to interpret or apply for the L2 referee, it is the standard of those individuals and their relative skill which makes them less competent.

Get it now?

Matt.

I am with Christine on this one. Appreciate the standards of football differ, but a bad decision against any team is just as costly no matter what league. Also (and more to the point) the rules do not change. I don't know if the refs get paid more for Premiership games, and appreciate they are open to more attack being the matches are televised more.

But this all goes back to my point, if a ref is relegated from premership football, obviously they are of sub standard so why should we end up with the dregs of cr@p refs?

But thats what I am saying...the rules dont change, they are exactly the same in the Blue Square as they are in the Premiership. I appreciate that some games are more challenging, to officiate, than others, but in my opinion the men in black ( or blue, yellow, red) should all be of the same standard. They make decisions that could, ultimately, cost someone their job.

The rules don't differ, the officials do. There is a reason that some referees are in the Premier League and some are in L2, and it is exactly the same reason that some players are in the Premier League and some are in L2. The game is exactly the same, just hacking a pigs bladder round a field, in just the same way that the rules are exactly the same.

You know yourself, when we have had dislodged Premier League referees that they are just better. Twice in two games last season it happened and, in those games, there were, maybe, a dozen free kicks awarded in total.

Matt.

[quote="ferrarilover"]

[color=#FF4000]Yes, of course Paul, which is why Wayne Rooney plays in the same division as Rene Howe, because footballers are wither good enough or not, regardless of whether they are in L2 or the Premiership...[/color]
Come on mate, you're better than that.

Agree with the top half though.

Matt.[/quote]

Sorry Matt. Dont agree. Of course there are different levels of players, some are, obviously, better than others, but why should the level of officiating not be the same wherever you play. Like I said rules are rules there is no getting away from that. They should apply to every level of the game.