Torquay United Fans Forum

I don't buy all this "they're bigger than us therefore they should beat us" rubbish. Try telling Wigan, Blackpool, Swansea, Scunthorpe, Doncaster and a whole host of other "small" clubs who have punched above their weight in recent years in higher divisions. If we're going to use the size of the club as an excuse then we should always expect to be the bottom four of the football league.

Bradford had less players than us for 3/4 of the game on Saturday but we failed to even draw against them. I haven't been to any away games this year but in all the home games I've been to, I'd say we look very good going forward but bloody fragile defending. In my opinion Saah is a weak link and once again we're playing a player out of position at RB. We got away with it when Mansell was there but Oastler hasn't got the guile to play there against decent left sided midfielders.

Up coming home games against Wimbledon and Gillingham should not be viewed as games we should win. At the moment, we'll struggle against both and I wouldn't put Argyle down as a cert win either.

Ling needs to bring in a couple of loanees to stabilise things or we're going to slip down into dangerously familiar territory.

SBGULL wrote:An 8-2 loss today with a number of Pro's doesnt sit well at all with me....time for changes!!!

It wasn't as good as that! We lost 9-1, but what a recovery it was 7-1 after 30 minutes. Signs of improvement

I like threads like this: it shows fans are far more reactionary than managers.
I did not go to Bradford or Shrewsbury but understand we were poor and some are writing us off. It was the same under Buckle, especially in the second season in the conference, when we were bottom 3 or 4. If you look at any given game any team can be awful - Morecambe 6 Crawley 0. I have seen 'the worse ever Tufc performance' under Leroy, Cornforth, Buckle, Kubik etc. It is not about a few games it is about gradual progression and Ling has not had enough time to tell what sort of job he is doing.

I like his attitude and approach (and lack of ego) and really hope that he is capable of translating that into wins.

An 8-2 loss today with a number of Pro's doesnt sit well at all with me....time for changes!!!

kittiwake wrote:

Where should we look?

kittiwake wrote:

OK maybe i was harsh on Tai but all we gulls want to see is him trying and giving 100%. Try things, pressure defenders, make runs anything just don't give up after the first 10 minutes if he hasn't had a shot yet. Thats all. If he has worked hard like you say he has on his fitness then chasing and pressing for 90 minutes should be well within his abilities should it not? I admit that confidence is low at the minute but if he (or any) player can't ride it then then should be out of the team and replaced by somebody else prepared to dig in.

The thing with Taiwo is that he starts off games well and as soon as something goes against him he drifts completley out of the game. At least McPhee just gets on with it and continues to give 100% still afterwards and doesnt let thinks affect him like Atieno does.

[quote="austrianandygull"]. That said, i would rather have him in the side than Atieno. At least McPhee actually gives a toss about playing professional football.

With respect austrianandygull, you are way off the mark here!

Can I asure you Taiwo takes his football very seriously. Do you think that level of fitness comes without a lot of hard work and dedication.

Look elsewhere for reasons why he hasn't played anywhere near his best recently.

Think, us fans need to put things into perspective here, if you look at the money that has been spent on the clubs infrastructure and I include the training ground and new grandstand in that, both un-avoidable, also some mistakes made by the club which has led to further financial hits couple that with attendances around the low 2000 mark, that equals only one thing a player budget reduction.

Buckle saw this coming and called the magical fairy to take his c.v to the far away lands of Bristol, I also believe Swindon and Brentford may have been the list of places for its delivery, but hey that’s another story , one which may yet have an happy ending .

What’s also not helping is the team started the season better than most of us expected, leading to raised expectation levels, and thoughts of another season of over achievement, oh god did I just say that, every time someone describes last season as one of over achievement, it just makes me want to blow chunks, as even Trojan 67 could have taken us up with that team.

A couple of poster’s on here warned towards the end of last season that 2011/12 was going to difficult, the board have tried to warn us as much as they can by referring to this season as “transitional” Martin Ling has said our budget is middle of the road which could mean any where from 12th to 16th, Lingy can not go and sign players, our club can not afford., including loans which are not always free.

Have “we been found out” No not at all, I think we are starting to see just where our club is at this moment in time, however the picture can change very quickly with a couple of wins, and it often amazes me those pressure easing wins can come along just when you least expect them, so strap yourselves in and get ready for rough ride, get down to the theatre of bad dreams and nightmares and support your team.

I think theres a right to be worried. Being there on Saturday watching us play like that reminded me of the year we went down. Were lacking in key areas....Look at our Strikers:

Bodin- Our only Striker who is capable of scoring regularly and he's only here till January I doubt we'll be able to afford him after that.

Howe- More of a target man who is a Heskey type of player. Will hold up the ball and set others up whilst chipping in with the odd goal.

Atieno- To me he's shown why he's never really settled anywhere...He isnt good enough. He seems to start games well and give up quickly if things dont go well for him. Simply not good enough.

McPhee- Not really proved his worth yet but give him credit hes a tryer and hes doing his best which just isnt enough at the minite as his finishing is severly lacking.

Defence wise were not been great so far and really Olejnik has kept us in games. Saah is struggling to get up to scratch and we cant afford him to be below par for much longer though he has had the odd good game he needs to get some consistency. Oastler still seems to be adapting to his new RB positon after being mainly a midfielder. Nicho and Robertson are solid enough players as theyve proved over the past few seasons. For me midfield is our strongest position. O'Kane is a quality player who can create things out of nothing and is vital for us, Mansell always gives 100% and isnt afraid to get stuck in so it works well. Not sure what to make of Lathrope yet he seems to drift in and out of games. On the wingers I dont think Morris is one. He doesnt have the pace or the skill to do well out there. However if we played him in the middle I think his quality will come through. Stevens and Macklin both have the potential to do well out there and Halpin looks a decent prospect aswell.

I'm slightly concerned at the minite I really cant see where the next win is going to come from. Dont get me wrong I like Ling in the fact he's honest and admits when were poor my frustration with him is that he says that but never does anything about it.

If we can keep a 10pt cushion between us and 23rd position, then I'll be happy.

The current gap is 8pts.

We need to win on Saturday then.

I was pretty happy as I'm sure everyone was with our start to the season but it's also fair to say that it's not been a great 6 games. I think where we currently sit in the league will reflect where we finish and to be honest I think most would accept that - I know I certainly would. On the whole I've been satisfied with the way ML has gone about his business. A couple of the players he's brought in I'm not so sure about, unfortunately Chris McPhee looks exactly the same player we let go a few years ago and in the games I've seen doesn't look league 2 standard at all. Whilst I may have kept Stevens for another season I think he was a very lucky boy to get a two year contract which I think was partly down to the fact that Ling hadn't seen him play. I had high hopes for Ian Morris but he hasn't delivered but hopefully he might get back to his best after he has recovered from a nasty injury. I was also very surprised to see Martin Rice return to the club although I can understand the logic as others have pointed out that he's cheap which allows us to put more resources into other positions. Brian Saah hasn't exactly filled me with confidence although he has had a useful couple of games, he certainly is no Guy Branston. After a good start to the season it has been disappointing to see that Howe and Atieno's goals have dried up somewhat. I feel this is an area where we are also struggling as well as at the back. I know he was in and out with us but you can see from his start at Burton that Billy Kee is a useful player. While you can't doubt his quality Billy Bodin is only here on loan and I doubt we would be able to keep him for the long term at the moment. He also seems to be on international duty a lot!

Overall, while I'm disappointed with the last few games it's far from the end of the world at the moment. The fact is this side isn't as good as the one that got us to the playoff final but then we were never going to have a permanent squad like that anyway. Providing we can stop the current run of results soon I can't see a problem. I do feel that Ling is going to have to go into the loan market and if necessary add a couple of permanent additions in January.

tufcbrett wrote:Mate im not arguing that at all. But im saying to saying its not as straight forward as everyone makes out. We can easiy sit there and say its the defence fault and swap Saah for Ellis but the same thing will happen.

To be fair Brett, I purposely didnt say that its all the defences fault. I know they are coming under a lot more pressure than they did last season and I dont think for one minute that swapping Ellis in for Saah will make the slightest difference either. The problem we have as far as I can see, is there seems no reliable outlet to lift the pressure. Howe gets isolated or drops too deep and then has no one to pass the ball to cleanly. We spend too much time passing the ball across our own half and the opposition then put pressure on up the field. Dont even get me started on the level of support offered to the full backs either.

tufcbrett wrote:Next week we could destroy Gillingham and we all are happy again.

I shall be there to see that happen (hopefully) but I fear 1 point will be the best we get

Ellis wouldn't have caused Bradford a problem on saturday Ben as we didn't even put any balls into the box but i take your point. A tricky striker like Robinson would do wonders for us but failing that anybody would do. McPhee is really laboured, sure he holds the ball up well but thats about it. That said, i would rather have him in the side than Atieno. At least McPhee actually gives a toss about playing professional football. I may have gone over the top with my scathing attack on our prospects after the Bradford game and i apologise. We will probably be ok but signs weren't great at all and i still have massive concerns. I also was putting the onus on the defence to try and tighten up as i know we have little options upfront and until this changes we need to be as tight as possible at the back. I don't agree with one post where someone said we were being put under pressure by Bradford. I don't believe we ever were, we had ample possession of the football but for whatever reason refused to play it forward therefore always being prone to losing it just in front of our back four which kept Bradford on the front foot. They didn't really have to exert themselves as we were playing ourselves into trouble by constantly passing the ball sideways from one side of the pitch to another and running into trouble because nobody was willing to create an outlet for us up top. When we managed to get the ball forward there was nobody up top as they were all camped in our own half anticipating the next pass sideways!

usagullmichigan wrote:we need a good quality young loaned striker.

We are that and some defensive coaching away from being a half decent team, basically we need another Bodin for the other wing.

I very much doubt we'll go down, the team is strong enough to stay up as it is, but I'd much rather we got a good loanee in and made a push for the playoffs.