Torquay United Fans Forum

i dont agree that we need a new right back. i personally think joe oastler is doing ok and although didnt do anything outstanding on saturday (but then no one else did either) he actually didnt do anything wrong (which is more than can be said for the other players). in fact there were two certain goal scoring opportunities where he had the guts to intervene otherwise it would have been 7-2 !! also we have other options for right back eg robertson and mansell. we need to be looking for players in all areas of the pitch who are willing to defend and put in a tackle or two and show a bit of aggression. the two recent examples of this are the two goals which were scored by running the full length of the pitch. why on earth didnt someone intervene ?? simple answer they bottle it . we need more aggression all over the pitch but in my view you cant put aggression into a player theyve either got it or they havent and i am afraid to say a lot of our players havent.

Modgull wrote:Father - were you at the game yesterday? Because if you had been you would be under no illusion that our defence were utter drivel, particularly Brian Saah.

It was no coincidence that the pop side all resorted to calling for Mark Ellis.

Yes I was at the game, perched nicely near the top of the family stand so as I get a reasonable view of the entire pitch.
Do enlighten us with which bit of my assessment on the goals conceded you dont agree with and would apportion blame to the centre backs though

Father - were you at the game yesterday? Because if you had been you would be under no illusion that our defence were utter drivel, particularly Brian Saah.

It was no coincidence that the pop side all resorted to calling for Mark Ellis.

Fair enough father, but my assessment is based on the season to date, not just yesterday.

To be quite honest DY, having just watched the highlights (if thats the word to use) several times over at different speeds, im hard pressed to point the finger at the centre backs for any of the goals yesterday. Possibly the first (maybe?) as the back 4 played the line to get an offside apart from Joe O who was a little further back and probably played Jo K onside. The second, the centrebacks were marking their men and Jo K stole in at the back post despite Atieno and Manse trying to stop him. 3rd was a penalty they couldnt do much about. The 4th they were both sticking to a player each, either side of the pitch and in a 3 v 2. As soon as they came in to tackle Rooney(?) he just passed it out to a now unmarked Nouble. The 5th was hardly down to the centre backs either.
He may look like a fish out of water at times but I dont think anyone could honestly point the finger at him or Robbo yesterday for culpability in the goals.

I don't think anyone believes that Ellis is all of a sudden some kind of world beater. He's had plenty of stinkers during his time here, he's also played pretty well at times too.

What most fans seem to be fed up with is ling's persistence in playing his favourite, who is shockingly out of form, and unwillingness to try something else. Could be the kick up the arse BS needs.

Father Jack wrote: So suddenly, the 998 minutes without letting one in is all down to Ellis?

Nothing to do with Branston being a naturally left sided centreback and organising the defence, or a rightback that doesnt look out of position?

Or even someone in front of the rightback who shielded him well? Or Poke in goal for half of them?

If you want to get really statto, you could point out that when Robertson moved to partner Branston (starting with Stockport home), the next 20 matches we managed to lose twice, one of which was the Accrington match that Ellis started in (and got sent off) so effectively thats 1 defeat in 19 when he wasnt playing?

I haven't said that, have I? He certainly played a part. Of course, Branston played a big role in that, the whole back four did. What was it again? Robbo-Ellis-Branno-Nicho?

3 goalkeepers played in that run, so even though Poke played a few, so did Bevs and Steve Collis.

Just to throw in my two cents worth:

We're clearly in need of a shake up at the back one way or another. Whilst it does seem odd for Ellis to be given a recall given his involvement in the 9-1 disaster during the week, at least Ling (and this is really searching for positives!) has shown that he isn't as obstinate and stubborn as his predecessor, and is willing to listen to the fans and change things around. Whether it works or not is another matter...

I, for one, don't know if Ellis is the answer. He's not the world-beater some would have us believe, but I do think he is a far better option at centre-back than Saah. For that reason, I hope that there is a simple straight swap at the back. As others have said, Nicho and Robbo have been part of a great defence over the last few seasons, and Oastler, although he's had his poor games, has shown moments of promise I thought.

Let's hope that this willingness to change it up leads to some activity in the loan market sooner rather than later, as our squad needs a couple more young loanees (preferably a defender and a striker).

I'm not panicking yet, but Ling needs to get a hold of this situation and turn our form around quickly.

NickGull wrote:Totally agree SNW. If Ellis was crap, he wouldn't have managed to go 998 minutes without conceding only a year ago! We know Ellis has his weaknesses, but again, that's why he's here and not 2/3 leagues higher up. He has quality, and as said, he will be a better option than persisting with Saah.

So suddenly, the 998 minutes without letting one in is all down to Ellis?

Nothing to do with Branston being a naturally left sided centreback and organising the defence, or a rightback that doesnt look out of position?

Or even someone in front of the rightback who shielded him well? Or Poke in goal for half of them?

If you want to get really statto, you could point out that when Robertson moved to partner Branston (starting with Stockport home), the next 20 matches we managed to lose twice, one of which was the Accrington match that Ellis started in (and got sent off) so effectively thats 1 defeat in 19 when he wasnt playing?

Totally agree SNW. If Ellis was crap, he wouldn't have managed to go 998 minutes without conceding only a year ago! We know Ellis has his weaknesses, but again, that's why he's here and not 2/3 leagues higher up. He has quality, and as said, he will be a better option than persisting with Saah.

bixieupnorth wrote:has someone been tinkering with your signature mate??!!

probably.

has someone been tinkering with your signature mate??!!

the annoying thing for me - as portugull has pointed out is that ellis was in the back four that didnt concede for 10 games!!!

http://www.torquayfans.com/viewtopic.ph ... 956#p48997" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and if you guys and gals at the game can see how s**t saah is then why cant ling?

has he got buckle syndrome???

i think for a lot of people the chants for ellis yesterday werent necessarily recognising him as the solution to our problems, after all we are all aware he played in the reserves last week and was by all accounts dire, and i saw him in pre season and was disappointed.

i think more than anything its a cry for change, because what we are doing right now is just not working. ellis is certainly an option and whether he applies himself in training or plays well for the reserves, or does neither of those things, he SURELY cant be any more of a danger to our own side than brian saah is at times...

Oh dear Number Four, you have much to learn. :~D

Matt.