Torquay United Fans Forum

First goal, I was stood nowhere near in line, but having refereed several games I've learnt to try and judge offsides as best I can (so I can stop any bias linesman), and it looked like he was onside - Oastler playing him onside. I've just seen highlights again, and he is. The second goal, Nouble was in the vicinity of Nicho near the ball, and Nicho's foot was high. There was no contact but the ref decided to err on the side of caution - fair enough. It was controversial, but the refs decision is final. The wall was ready, but the fact that Stevens was in the wall was stupid. The ball went over his head and therefore the wall failed.

Atienos disallowed goal - he was active and offside when the original shot came in, as he touched the ball before the keeper touched it. Therefore, offside and rightly disallowed.

The penalty was a bit dodgy, but it looked like Nicho tripped/pulled Kuffour down so can't really argue.

Like you say, we deserved something.

I don't see how Nick, for the most part I'm stating fact. You're either offside or you're not and Kuffour was offside. Same with the second goal, Nico was all alone, no opponent within 10 yards, yet it was deemed dangerous when Nico put up his foot to trap the ball. Again, none of our defenders nor the wall were even close to ready when the kick was taken, they were all waiting for a whistle that never came. All facts thus far. The same goes for the offside which disallowed our goal, according to the laws, Tai isn't offside. Penalty is subjective, and the fourth goal is fine. Only one man on earth knows for sure whether he was shooting or crossing, so we can't certainly discount that. So, that's two off for Gillingham and one on for us, making it a 2-3 draw which, in the first piece of genuine opinion in this post, is the least we deserved.

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote: You're wrong, Biffo (well, you did ask). First goal was miles, and by miles, I very nearly literally mean miles (1-1.5 YARDS) offside. Second was FUBAR for two reasons; firstly, given for high foot against Nico when the nearest other human being was sat in the Family Stand and secondly, the ref suggested he'd whistle play started, so our wall was mid-setup when they took it and caught us, not unexpectedly, unawares. Did the Gillingham fan in charge disallow it, no, he didn't.
He then disallows our goal for offside when Tai is not interfering with play when the initial shot comes in, then is interfering, but only once we enter phase two of play, the ball having come back from a deliberate touch by the 'keeper. Impossible for Tai to be offside, but it's given anyway.
I really don't want this to sound like sour grapes, but the better team for longer periods of the match on Saturday was beaten by the greatest margin in 5 years (or something like that).
When you consider how comprehensively thrashed we were by Crawley (3-1), first half by D&R (1-1), a lesser extent by Aldershot (1-0 win), the idea that a team second best to us for over an hour beat us 5-2 just goes to show how crazy a result it was and how unjust football can be sometimes.

Matt.

I'm sorry Matt but that is one of the most biased reviews I've read.

I agree with Biffo, any comments I made on Saturday evening were more out of frustration/shock, so ignore those.

Friendly, you say it isn't possible to be the better side and still lose 5-2. Unfortunately, it was, in this instance. We dominated the first half, 62% possession, 8 shots to their 2, yet we were 0-2 down. Granted, Gills improved when it got to 2-2 but the penalty killed us.

I'm not bitter - fair play to Gillingham for continuing to keep going, even when it looked like we had the upper hand..

friendlygas wrote:And you have the cheek to criticise Buckle for excuses!!! Don't think you can be unlucky to lose 5-2 or the better team.Yes you can be unlucky to lose 3-2 or 2-1 but I don't think so at 5-2. Sounds like a slaughter but i have to say I am surprised by your recent results as expected you to do better.On saying that those on here who are saying you are relegation material is nonsence.You will finish a comfortable mid table and I personally still think you will push for the play offs and I see us in a similar position.

I can't see us or Torquay getting in the play offs.

Torquay just dont have real quality or strength in depth, and Rovers have average L2 players

And you have the cheek to criticise Buckle for excuses!!! Don't think you can be unlucky to lose 5-2 or the better team.Yes you can be unlucky to lose 3-2 or 2-1 but I don't think so at 5-2. Sounds like a slaughter but i have to say I am surprised by your recent results as expected you to do better.On saying that those on here who are saying you are relegation material is nonsence.You will finish a comfortable mid table and I personally still think you will push for the play offs and I see us in a similar position.

biffo wrote:correct me if i'm wrong - first half against gills we had maybe three times more chances than them - their goals - first one good - second from free kick after nouble just fell over - their goalie two/three good saves and a goal disallowd five minutes !!!! after it goes in...
second half - great comeback -played great for 10 mins and then had the stuffing knocked out of us by the pen...
continuued to play...but their fourth reminded me of ellisons for morecambe ...we were all upfield putting on pressure and they break away !!!
mid - table will be fine..when we play we can really play some good stuff

You're wrong, Biffo (well, you did ask). First goal was miles, and by miles, I very nearly literally mean miles (1-1.5 YARDS) offside. Second was FUBAR for two reasons; firstly, given for high foot against Nico when the nearest other human being was sat in the Family Stand and secondly, the ref suggested he'd whistle play started, so our wall was mid-setup when they took it and caught us, not unexpectedly, unawares. Did the Gillingham fan in charge disallow it, no, he didn't.
He then disallows our goal for offside when Tai is not interfering with play when the initial shot comes in, then is interfering, but only once we enter phase two of play, the ball having come back from a deliberate touch by the 'keeper. Impossible for Tai to be offside, but it's given anyway.
I really don't want this to sound like sour grapes, but the better team for longer periods of the match on Saturday was beaten by the greatest margin in 5 years (or something like that).
When you consider how comprehensively thrashed we were by Crawley (3-1), first half by D&R (1-1), a lesser extent by Aldershot (1-0 win), the idea that a team second best to us for over an hour beat us 5-2 just goes to show how crazy a result it was and how unjust football can be sometimes.

Matt.

Enzo wrote:With respect, I disagree with the comparison that the opening post is based on - one cannot possibly compare that season with this one, due to the stability that we now have at board level (although far from perfect). Chris Roberts was so out of his depth, no manager could have kept us up that season - We had a good start, but probably similar to this season, the best we could possibly hope for that year was a rather dull season of consolidation, even before the Roberts revolution. My recollection maybe hazy, but Atkins did not leave as part of a knee jerk reaction - His removal as manager was part of a much wider plan. I think Atkins was actually offered some kind of role at the club, probably a mere token gesture, which he refused. Atkins knew the score completely, as did Mickey Evans. If ever you get the chance, listen to his post match interview after the peterborough game - in hindsight, he was spot on. The relegation writing was on the wall as soon as Mike Bateson was taken in by Roberts.

I know that this was not the point of the original post and apologise for changing direction slightly. For what it is worth I don't think we should be too hasty in changing managers - I doubt we could afford to anyway. This was always going to be a tough, tough season and I'd happily settle for a dull lower mid table finish.

Guess my memory is hazy aswell, i had completely forgoten about that, yes i do remember Atkins being offered some kind of director of football role, which i think was more cleaning the car park and cutting the grass rather than football, yes i agree it was part of a wider plan, however i think you got where is was coming from.

brucie wrote:If it was just a case of "needing our support" then there would not be a crisis. It doesn't change anything though - half our players are not up to standard.
Take Leadbitter. He is permanently injured and how many league games has he started in his career for other clubs. Big fat zilcho. is he the full back to come in and play thirty odd games now - No. Would he get in any other lleague 2 team - no.
And suggesting serial texter Macklin as the answer is just absurd. Lets face it he is a complete joke (or would be if we were not actually paying him money). Would he get in any other league 2 team? - no.
Would Halpin get in any other league 2 team - no
what about Saah? - no
Mcphee - no
Rice - No
Atieno - No
Oastler - No

This is the problem as I keep saying - we don't have enough players who can peform to an adequate standard. With these players there is absolutely no chance of us winning sufficient games to keep us in this league.

I went for Macklin purely on the evidence of his pre-season performances, which on the whole were pretty good, anyone who was at the Exeter game will back me up that match Macklin was on fire there league 1 full back could not stop him for toffee.

Ok you could say , yeah but thats pre-season, however pre-season are more than just about fitness they are also about players showing the manager you are ready and worth a place in the game 1 starting line up, Macklin looked a player in pre-season champing at the bit for a fresh start under a new manager and did not get a chance at the start of the season, and with the first team winless in 7 games he still is not getting the chance.

I would not on the evidence i saw pre-season simply dismiss him as not good enough, to be fair he has never ever had a proper chance here to prove it one way or another, he may well have an attitude problem or may be poor on the training ground, if so agreed move him on free up space for fresh blood, atleast lets give him a proper chance to prove himself first.

correct me if i'm wrong - first half against gills we had maybe three times more chances than them - their goals - first one good - second from free kick after nouble just fell over - their goalie two/three good saves and a goal disallowd five minutes !!!! after it goes in...
second half - great comeback -played great for 10 mins and then had the stuffing knocked out of us by the pen...
continuued to play...but their fourth reminded me of ellisons for morecambe ...we were all upfield putting on pressure and they break away !!!
mid - table will be fine..when we play we can really play some good stuff

Whats changed lads??

You were pretty good at our place with the same players........

brucie wrote:Just to reply to your other post - no obviously I can't see for myself because i havn't been going. Obviously it was a great win at Bristol Rovers but it is surely possible to form an opinion from listening to commentary of the match. For example I listened to the Aldershot game and it was clear that we fluked three points there. It sounded as though we we absolutely mullered.

Which is correct we were toilet collectively. Which is the point it's easier to form an opinion of a team effort from others but harder to judge an individual from what others have seen. Evidence is on here, on the Gills game thread the ratings for everyone will be all over the show. Some will get 8's and from someone else they'll get 5's. It's just what people see differs from person to person, but collectively everyone will agree defensively we were crap! again!

The aldershot game was just like the one there last year, we were utterly atrocious only their keeper allowed us to win and somehow we kept a clean sheet despite them missing a collection of sitters. It wasn't by any means a convincing display but some individuals did well in that game.

brucie wrote:Royalgull - apologies the insult was not aimed at you, but the moron who posted above your message. I didn't see your mesage before submitting mine - thats why I answered your post with my second one.

Apology accepted.

Just to reply to your other post - no obviously I can't see for myself because i havn't been going. Obviously it was a great win at Bristol Rovers but it is surely possible to form an opinion from listening to commentary of the match. For example I listened to the Aldershot game and it was clear that we fluked three points there. It sounded as though we we absolutely mullered.

Royalgull - apologies the insult was not aimed at you, but the moron who posted above your message. I didn't see your mesage before submitting mine - thats why I answered your post with my second one.

That's obviously a major factor in Ling's budget being what it is. The club is spending money on the training facilities as well as this new stand. Two major factors in expenditure that haven't previously been an issue for previous managers, ever really.

Like you correctly say some regulars wouldn't want to relocate, as trivial as that sounds I bet it's true. I've sat behind the goal a few times and as ever behind the goal the view is infinitely worse than along the side of the pitch and also it's always bloomin freezing in that stand! For some it may well be the only option as standing for 90mins isn't possible for everybody. So the thought of parting their usual season ticket cash for a worse view seat in a freezing stand with a poorer quality of product on the field isn't going to entice everyone! End of the day football is an expensive entertainment business and like brucie says, he doesn't want to pay the costs, there will be others. Ultimately though it ends up hurting the club because that lost revenue at our level is massive. Leads to smaller budget- worse players - worse team. It's a tough one.

This season was never going to be like last, the football was going to be worse, the results were definitely going to be worse as a whole but we do need to improve a bit. We aren't as desperately shite as brucie says but we aren't particularly good either. Certainly a lower end League 2 side this year on the evidence shown. It could change, some new players might change it like Bucks did when we first went up. Gave the original squad a chance then went and changed it at Xmas time, we might see something similar. It's a tough one for the board as well, on limited funds juggling the long term future of the club with the new facilities and it has to be a priority but ultimately the short term is the current squad and Ling needs to be able to make sure the squad is good enough to get what they want this year. Where I and I think everyone would agree, relegation would be a catastrophy this season. I am still convinced even if we signed no one else this season we are better than 4 or 5 other teams in this league.