Torquay United Fans Forum

nicktufc wrote:I couldn't care less what players say on Twitter, and yes, they might just switch off when they get on the coach, or if they aren't in the side.
They might tweet about Football Manager, or Fifa12, or where they are going that night. Does that make them worse on the pitch? No, a lack of effort and commitment whilst training or playing is the only thing we should really be commenting on.

The tripe being served to us at the moment is hideous, and in Rene Howe, I've not seen a striker so out of shape since Akinfenwa, no chasing down of defenders, no busting to get into space, and it shows. If we can't hold the ball up and keep the pressure off by holding onto possession, then we will lose a hell of a lot more games than we win. Howe needs to be told to either lose some weight and improve his fitness, or he'll be out of the side and we will sign a replacement.

The other problem, as I see it, is that in McPhee, Rice, Lathrope and all the kids, is that they are so far off the pace, and quality needed to compete in league 2. Our back ups have not got the ability to change things round, and we look like once we pick up a few injuries, we'll have a team that wouldn't pick up results in the league below.

Letting the kids(Yeoman/Spear/Palmer) go, letting McPhee and Stevens, and Atieno go, and Howe if he can't be bothered to get himself in shape, and replacing them with 2 or 3 quality players would be a far better use of resources. We look as if we have a couple of promising trainees, people like Niall Thompson to come in if we were caught short, but with only 5 subs this season, that is highly unlikely to happen.

Leaving things as they are for too much longer, could just put us in a position we may not be able to recover from.

Nicktufc. To be honest I have no intrest, as such, as to what the players say on Twitter. The point that I am attempting to make is the, apparant complete, lack of comcern about an uninspiring performance a matter of, maybe, 1 hour prior. A lot of them seem more comcerned about other, trivial, matters, and it's that which is annoying me.

I don't know about you, but when I leave a ground, at the end of a game where I have seen very little comittment or passion from the men in yellow, (And I have the prospect of a 200+ mile journey in front of me) I can't help but think about the preceeding 90 mins. What could we have done differently, who played well. who did not play well, who took the game by the scruff of the neck and WANTED to win. The last thing on my mind is how many points (or whatever it is they get) have I got on a bloody football computer game!! I'm already thinking about the next game and will we be able to pick up 3 points, to keep us out of the dreaded "drop" zone. Much as I quite enjoyed the BSP I do not want to go there again. :aww:

Anyhow that's my take on it and if I have to concern myself with my teams performance, then I think the players who play for my team, should as well.
I have no qualms with them losing, that happens, but I do have issue's with the manner in which they lose.

For the first time in a long long time, I couldn't be bothered to listen to the Southend game. I was pretty tired anyway with virtually no sleep on the friday night, plus I had to work an early morning shift, but I tuned in 30 minutes into the match and switched off when we went 3-0 down.

If we lose tonight, I think I may see my local club East Preston play then rather listen to Torquay on Saturday. I know we cant win every match and we all go through tough spells like this, but why should I pay a lot of money to travel to places such as Bradford to watch the majority of the team get rolled over without a fight. Like awayday has said, where has the passion gone from the side who beat Bristol Rovers. The team that fought brilliantly at championship table toppers Southampton. I feel sorry for players like Bobby and Manse because they almost all of the time are the best players on the pitch.

I'm hoping that things change tonight. I expect the crowd to be be just under 2,000, depends how many AFC fans travel. I will be listening in, hopefully to the start of our revival up the table.

What happened to the team that played Rovers who showed passion, pride and the wanting to win?

Well tonight I am now going to Basingstoke V Staines Massive (by complete chance this is the 3rd time I have seen Staines in as many games now), I did get offered tickets to see Aldershot v Mancs, but I am taking my daughter and I didn't really want her in the terrace at grimshot.

Hopefully TUFC will get some fight back into them soon.

i was at the game on saturday and i am afraid to say that no-one played well except bobby and i think even he could have positioned himself better for a couple of goals. when i say no-one i mean no-one. just because some players apologise on twitter, throw their arms around in frustration on the pitch and wave frantically at the fans at the end of the game seems to suggest to some fans who weren't at the game that they played ok, well i can assure you they didn't !!! in fact they were more to blame than our centre backs who appear to be continuously blamed.

so far this season, i've tried not to enter into too many of the debates over performances of the team and individuals, for the simple reason that i haven't been to a game since the win at Rovers. i just haven't had the time.

however, i have read on with interest, and there is a very common theme amongst the topics and posts on here. and it's probably the same discussions that are going on at a number of club forums around the land, for those clubs struggling a bit at the moment, and finding themselves at the wrong end of the table.

i for one do not like seeing clubs anywhere, changing manager too frequently. sure, if a manager isn't performing, it needs to be looked at, but is Sir Alex a bad manager now because they got humped at home by city yesterday ?? no, of course he's not. Is Wenger a bad manager because Arsenal got walloped 8-2 by the very same Utd that lost 6-1 yesterday ?? no, of course not, but it didn't stop people saying Wenger should go.

all i'm saying is, EVERYONE on the payroll needs to look at themselves and ask if they can do their job better. judging from what i've read, i'd say there's not many TUFC players/coaching staff/etc. that are covering themselves in glory right now.

we're a small club, with limited resources. we have a diamond in the pack, in the shape of Eunan. Is he playing well at the moment ?? it doesn't sound like it. and 2 months ago we were worried about him moving on to bigger and better things. I get the impression too, that Manse is probably the one who really is trying to lead by example, but there is no surprise there, having watched him for a few years now, you know what you get from Manse. so why aren't the rest doing it ?? are they not trying, are they off form, or are they just not good enough ??

again, going on what i've read, maybe the mistake that Ling is making at the moment, is sticking with his mate Saah. maybe he'll have to bite the bullet, and drop the guy, and see if we improve.

yes, you would seriously hope he's looking at who is available in the loan market, even if it is just to shake things up a bit, bring in someone who might change the atmosphere in the dressing room, much like Branno did when he first arrived. and if they go on to contribute on the pitch in the way Branno, Stanley, Robinson, Tomlin etc did, then great. Even if we were doing better, you'd hope the manager would be looking at ways to improve, and for clubs such as ours, the loan market is a must. we were doing ok last year, and then we got some of the aforementioned loanees in, and kicked on to a playoff final.

As has been said elsewhere on here, we had a really tough summer, and by the time Ling was brought in, he had to quickly assemble a squad before the season kicked off. i don't think he panicked with his signings, but we needed players, and with the budget constraints, we didn't exactly have players queueing at our door. could the club as a whole have done things better, knowing that Buckle was leaving ?? From the outside, i'd say they definitely could've done things better, and faster.

as for our form, i can only comment on the last game i saw, and personally, i didn't think we played particularly well against Rovers. we all got wrapped up in the result, but i don't think we played that well. And lets be honest, despite the fact most people thought Rovers would be romping games with the players they have, they are struggling too, so we didn't beat a good side.

i could be shot down in flames here, and that's fine, but i do believe we have good enough players, maybe not strength in depth, but players capable of getting better results than we are managing at present. i also believe Ling is not a bad manager, and think it would be a mistake to replace him after just a few months in the job. i'm not trying to make any excuses for anyone, especially if they don't appear to be putting in the effort, but we have lost to teams that we would expect to see near the top of the division. so, i hope to see/hear things improve in the next few games, against teams we would ordinarily expect to do well against. if not, then i'll accept things are as bad as some of you have said they are !!

i don't think we should read too much into what the players say on twitter etc. players all over the world, at all levels of the game do all that nonsense, and play FIFA with their mates. it's just the way things are now. i'd rather they were doing that than partying with school girls in hotel rooms, or getting bladdered on a friday night etc etc. whatever they do in their private life is up to them, provided its not those activities that are affecting their performances on the pitch.

anyway, my next game will be the away game at Crewe, so stick with it boys and girls, and hopefully i'll see you all there.

I couldn't care less what players say on Twitter, and yes, they might just switch off when they get on the coach, or if they aren't in the side.

They might tweet about Football Manager, or Fifa12, or where they are going that night. Does that make them worse on the pitch? No, a lack of effort and commitment whilst training or playing is the only thing we should really be commenting on.

The tripe being served to us at the moment is hideous, and in Rene Howe, I've not seen a striker so out of shape since Akinfenwa, no chasing down of defenders, no busting to get into space, and it shows. If we can't hold the ball up and keep the pressure off by holding onto possession, then we will lose a hell of a lot more games than we win. Howe needs to be told to either lose some weight and improve his fitness, or he'll be out of the side and we will sign a replacement.

The other problem, as I see it, is that in McPhee, Rice, Lathrope and all the kids, is that they are so far off the pace, and quality needed to compete in league 2. Our back ups have not got the ability to change things round, and we look like once we pick up a few injuries, we'll have a team that wouldn't pick up results in the league below.

Letting the kids(Yeoman/Spear/Palmer) go, letting McPhee and Stevens, and Atieno go, and Howe if he can't be bothered to get himself in shape, and replacing them with 2 or 3 quality players would be a far better use of resources. We look as if we have a couple of promising trainees, people like Niall Thompson to come in if we were caught short, but with only 5 subs this season, that is highly unlikely to happen.

Leaving things as they are for too much longer, could just put us in a position we may not be able to recover from.

I went, with Matt (Ferrarilover) to Plymouth on Sat. Wanted to go to a match but could not, in Pauls words, "Be arsed" to travel 500+ miles to watch a non committed, dismal performance by TUFC.

Plymouth lost the game 1-0 (To Swindon) but they played pretty well and were unlucky not to get a point from the match. They never let their heads drop and each player, and I mean each player, gave 100%. They commited as a team and the supporters were behind them (Not saying that our supporters are not behind TUFC) for the whole match, the reason being that the fans could see the players were trying their hardest to get the right result. With that sort of effort, from players and fans alike, Plymouth may still be relegated, but it wont be for the want of trying.

One downside to mention. It was my first visit to Home Park and nice as it was to get a free paring space right outside the ground, the 45 mins it took to get out was not so good. In the time it took I could have been home!!

I have been talking to SG about this, but for the first time in my 20 odd years of following Torquay, I am finding myself not giving an arse about going to watch Torquay. Southend is one of those games I always go to, but Saturday morning just couldn't be arsed, so I didn't go. Up until Bradford I hadn't missed an away game, but after how badly we played at D&R and Aldershot I have started visiting smaller more local clubs and missing how badly we are playing. I have said before I don't mind losing if we played well and played as a team, but when they play like cr@p I would rather save my time and watch Eastleigh, Sholing or even Worthing the other weekend. Tomorrow night SG asked me to go to AFC Wimbledon game, I can't go due to work, but I would still question myself about wanting to go and watch them beat us 3-0 at home.

Call me a fair weather fan if you want, the friends who know me at Torquay now how commited I have been in the past, but something has to change. For me personally I think the board need to put some money in to the club for playing staff. As a consortium they have contributed a big chunk in the past, but as individuals within the consortium it has been very little. As SG has already said, the club have created a vicious circle for themselves, but someone needs to inject some change into the runnings otherwise BSP here we come again.

For me personally we need 3 keys players, some one to replace Branston as a hard man centre back, someone up front who can hold the ball up and score and someone to sit behind the forwards and create chances or someone who can play a defending midfield role and let Mansell go up front and create more.

Spot on diamondgirl. It is all about weighing it all up in your head and coming to the conclusion that cost wise and effort wise, going to a particular game is just not worth it when you don't get anything in return. 3 points would be the ideal outcome but if not just 100% commitment, effort and positivity from the players. That is all we can ask of them. I wonder what really goes through a players mind when say he is warming up before a game away at say Morecambe on a cold january day (like last season) and sees 150-200 of the yellow army tucked away in a discreet corner of the ground. Does he look at them and consider that most of them will have got up at the crack of dawn to travel, spent loads and will not get home til about midnight at the earliest. Then be inspired and be amazed that they are there to watch him play, or does the player take a look and pity us as sad losers who should be doing something esle with our lives - like posting banal trivia on twitter or something? This season i wonder?

There appears, to me, to be zero passion and commitment from a majority of the players. I agree that you cannot take too much notice of what they say on Twitter, and a couple of the players (Manse & Nicho spring to mind) do always apologise for the performance (or lack of) and say they will do their best to get it put right. However, most of the others tweet about what film should they watch, how boring the coach trip home is, how many points have they got on football manager (or whatever!) which nightclub should they go too. Now I do appreciate that they have a life outside of football, but do they find it that easy to just switch off from the job that pays their morgages? Do they just accept that, however badly, or well, they perform they will be paid anyway? If it were me, I would not be concerned about the film/journey/footie manager or nightclub , but how soon I could get back onto the training pitch in an attempt to try and rectify the situation.

I, again, appreciate that "someone" will have to finish bottom of the league and if it has to be TUFC, then so be it, but I would like the team to put up some sort of fight and show some passion and commitment. Lets face it, thats what they ask us, the fans, to do. I travel home (season ticket holder) and away supporting the boys, however last Sat. (Southend) I decided that I really could not COMMIT to spending 8/10 hours DRIVING the 520/550 mile round trip, plus the £100 that it would have cost in fuel/entrance/ programme/ cuppa etc. when the players are not prepared to commit 100%

I really dont think we have a bad squad (or manager) just a lousy attitute to the game. Maybe if their wages were docked for lack lustre performances things would change

These are just my humble thoughts and opinions. One very fed up season ticket holder.

gullsrus wrote:all this debate about players trying and being passionate about the club intrigues me.
it seems to me that some players are trying hard because they run round like headless chickens and look busy
it seems to me that some players are giving 100% because thay have one good little run in the match but have no end product
it seems to me that some players are playing well beacause they pass the ball around then give it away constantly but its the fault of the player on the receiving end
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they apologise on twitter
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they wave and clap the fans at the end more enthusiastically than others.
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they talk to the fans more than others

i could go on but every player is different and show passion and effort in different ways. i find it hard to believe that professionals dont want to try or dont care about the club except for the one or two mentioned repeatedly and i dont agree that there are only one or two. my personal opinion is that the players are good enough but aren't being organised or motivated in the right way.they seem to be uncomfortable and lacking in confidence. an example is the way they seem to panic and get rid of the ball as if its a red hot potato.

i am just interested in others views as how they judge a player to be giving 100% on the pitch and being passionate about the club. whats the criteria?

For me mate i am sort of in the headless chicken brigade. I know it doesn't always translate to success on the pitch but it is a necessity for me. For example the strikers should press from the front, if they can't be arsed then it is one more line of defence that the opposition has negated without any effort expended. I hate to see strikers just watch whilst players within reach of a challenge just let them ghost on by. It is pure laziness and its not as if strikers are the hardest worked on the pitch anyway. Workrate and pressure at all times is the very least i expect. Also players who don't want the ball ( like a red hot potato as you say). I want players to be offering themselves and making forward runs not taking the easy option and being static and offering us nothing. If the player bombs forward and gets caught out on the counter if we lose possession then so be it. I'm not gonna be having a go. I'd rather he made an effort to get forward than sit back and play mind numbing pointless passing routines that don't get beyond the half way line. It is basically be positive, try and be positive with and without the ball and when you don't have the ball try and bloody get it back.

What the players say on twitter is irrelevant nonsensical. Perhaps they ought to get out on the training ground and start earning their money. Our perhaps have some pride in what they are doing ffs. The 9-1 defeat of the reserves told its own story. A shambles,a disgrace. Blame who you like, Ling,Taylor,the board. We are not staying up with the players we have at present. Thats a dead cert.

all this debate about players trying and being passionate about the club intrigues me.
it seems to me that some players are trying hard because they run round like headless chickens and look busy
it seems to me that some players are giving 100% because thay have one good little run in the match but have no end product
it seems to me that some players are playing well beacause they pass the ball around then give it away constantly but its the fault of the player on the receiving end
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they apologise on twitter
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they wave and clap the fans at the end more enthusiastically than others.
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they talk to the fans more than others

i could go on but every player is different and show passion and effort in different ways. i find it hard to believe that professionals dont want to try or dont care about the club except for the one or two mentioned repeatedly and i dont agree that there are only one or two. my personal opinion is that the players are good enough but aren't being organised or motivated in the right way.they seem to be uncomfortable and lacking in confidence. an example is the way they seem to panic and get rid of the ball as if its a red hot potato.

i am just interested in others views as how they judge a player to be giving 100% on the pitch and being passionate about the club. whats the criteria?

No worries mate, I respect your right to disagree totally and I'm just arguing my own point of view. I don't think it's mis-guided at all, I think it would be worse to sack him and face a situation with a new guy coming in and having to work under the same constraints and with the same players that aren't performing at the moment. I'm as pissed off as anyone with the results but I'm not reaching for the panic button just yet, there's a long long way to go and if we finish third from bottom then Ling has succeeded in doing the job he was asked to do, that's the point I can't forget, it's all the Board wanted and is worth considering by those so eager to blame Ling.

OK Dave, points taken although it doesn't matter about the circumstances around the players that left. The fact is they left and we needed to replace them. We replaced them with inferior Ling signings. I don't want to keep re-iterating the point but all i want to see is some effort and desire to attack no matter who plays. If we lost every game this season and went down, but gave our all then fair enough. It is the meek manner of our play recently that makes me not want to part with any of my hard earned money to go and watch players who don't try. I will attend even if we are losing as long as i see the players are trying but at the moment they do not deserve my money. As for the players going on twitter with their bleeding hearts and apologies, it doesn't cut it. Show us players that you are as pissed off as us fans by actually being positive on the pitch and making things happen. Words are hollow when not backed up by actions. We'll agree to disagree on this Dave although i appreciate your comments, a lot of which are good points. I'm an old fashioned kind of bloke brought up with Yorkshire miners and to me trying and striving for something is better than not trying at all. An ideology that Ling would do well to instill in his players. As always Dave i respect your opinions but i feel your faith in Ling is a bit misguided.