Torquay United Fans Forum

[quote="Southampton Gull"]It seemed a very showbiz affair at the time, seeing crowds that size as a young lad was quite intimidating.[/quote]

Yeah, I remember being crushed a few times against the Ellacombe End fence. It must have been really bad when there was 21,000 there against Spurs.

My Dad used to take me to a lot of those Saturday evening games, I can remember being hoisted above heads by other fans so I could take up a position at the front to see the game.

It seemed a very showbiz affair at the time, seeing crowds that size as a young lad was quite intimidating.

The thread starter from Dave (forevertufc) has prompted some great posts from Hector, Austrian Andy, Wonderland, Gloster, Stefano and Yellow.

My time supporting TUFC started in 1965 when I was at Ellacombe Primary School. It was after the FA Cup 3rd Round game v Spurs. I saw a few home games at the end of the 64/65 season. Things for me, regarding football, kicked off big time the next season (65/66) especially in the lead up to the '66 World Cup. Wow, what a year, United get promoted, the Toffees come from 0-2 down to beat the Owls 3-2 to win the FA Cup and the feckin big cherry on the top was England [b][size=150]WINNING [/size][/b]the World Cup. :scarf:

I celebrated by dancing around in front of the black and white telly in Norbert Styles style. :)

I was ten then, I won't in my lifetime see England do it again. In fact, there are ten year olds now who won't see England win it again. :(

Football received an attendances boost after that and the crowd figures at Plainmoor for the 66/67 season were very healthy. In the next couple of seasons Saturday night home games (k.o 7.30 pm) saw regular attendances of 9000.

As a kid at school, I thought Division Three was our natural place. :) :rofl:

If you weren't so keen to keep making this personal you'd have understood my post a little better. I mentioned a specific example of one of the shortcomings of certain officers at the club which backs up what you said but In my opinion is an area which is vitally important if the club is to improve itself financially.

[quote="Southampton Gull"]I think you've pretty much got it spot on there Yellow.

While Hector raises some good points I'm not sure if he realises the most important and deciding factor is in how the club is marketed. If some of the members of the Board were allowed to impliment some plans and use the sound advice they've been given then maybe we might be able to start improving the size of our fanbase, it's obvious that the current commercial department are not doing their jobs well enough. If we want to develop as a club then we need to move with the times instead of sitting still.[/quote]

I did mention how the club was marketed/promoted itself in one of my answers

I think you've pretty much got it spot on there Yellow.

While Hector raises some good points I'm not sure if he realises the most important and deciding factor is in how the club is marketed. If some of the members of the Board were allowed to impliment some plans and use the sound advice they've been given then maybe we might be able to start improving the size of our fanbase, it's obvious that the current commercial department are not doing their jobs well enough. If we want to develop as a club then we need to move with the times instead of sitting still.

Enjoying the nostalgia trip as well. Life seemed a lot simpler then.

But this is here and this is now.

However I think the other significant factor that has not been mentioned was the decision that home clubs would keep all of the gate money rather than share it. I believe this was circa 1983. This harmed the likes of TUFC disproportionately.

Football was more egalitarian before the advent of this and then the formation of the Premier League changed the face of the working man’s game forever (that is for a long time, rather than aimed at you Forza).

The board have to deal with the new reality which is that support levels are modest and we need a new grandstand. The team on the pitch is a consequence of the financial constraints.

I doubt that we would be a league club without the munificence of Paul Bristow and now his widow Thea continues to support the club. Bless ‘em both.

Mike Bitesize wasn’t that far wrong. We are very lucky to have a league club at all IMHO.

I suppose the beauty of our football league system is its fluidity (one that some Premiership owners have mooted removing by banning relegation). That is why we have some traditionally bigger clubs in the division below us and some traditionally smaller clubs in the division above us and us where we have been now for 40 years bar 2 in League 1 and 2 in the Conference.

You have clubs in the Premiership like Wigan, QPR, Fulham whose gates are dwarfed by teams in the division below like Derby. That will always happen. There will always be clubs who over-achieve/under-achieve and somewhere in between.

Simply because some clubs with bigger potential are languishing, it does not mean we simply should accept our place and roll over to continual seasons of struggle. This was Mike Bateson's mantra. It engenders disinterest and apathy and football clubs do need to try and be imaginative in recruiting and keeping fans.

However, the only real thing that will truly sustain a growing fanbase is success on the field. Yeovil tripled their fanbase in a matter of 2 years on their march from Conference to League 1, as did pretty much Exeter. However, for both clubs attendances have dipped to reflect their fortunes on the field.

We have never really managed to sustain success since the 1960s. Any good season has usually been followed by a difficult one so any momentum is lost.

Geography is often cited as a reason for struggle yet it is surely easier for us to get players down here than it must have been in the late 1930s when we started being competitive in Div 3(S). Yeovil have just signed Darren Purse on loan. I cannot imagine us ever getting anyone like that in, yet they struggle with gates now and Yeovil is probably a harder place to get to than Torquay.

I think there is a mindset with Torquay that we are beaten before we try. We cannot attract players/fans, so lets not really bother. It is not for us supporters to suggest ways or go about promoting the club. We already go and pay our money and buy programmes etc. The club need to do this.

In some small ways they do it well, such as the programme but communication from the club is poor. That in itself is not necessarily going to attract new fans but there are things the club could perhaps try to do to actually stop losing anymore fans. I have a season ticket but if I did not, I would be tempted to miss tomorrow's game.

I have so many reasons not to go before I even start thinking about the reasons TUFC are making going to Plainmoor a less attractive proposition with the dull, soulless atmosphere at Plainmoor, the really quite drab football on offer and not much prospect of even seeing the team win.

In the end we get gates of 2300 or so and always have done since I have been going unless we are doing very well or very poorly. At the moment it looks like things are about to get a whole lot worse so I guess the crowds will indeed drop and unless Wimbledon bring a lot tomorrow I suspect the attendance will be below 2000.

[quote="Sesimbra"]This has been an interesting subject and the postings by wonderland and stefano are right on the mark. I supported Torquay in the 50s and everything I would have said has been said.
In general however I feel that it is only a matter of time before all the smaller league clubs become part-time due to the dominance of the Premier clubs. There is little sentiment for the small clubs and some will certainly go out of business due to lack of support and financial backing. This is sad but until the big clubs recognise that they are destroying the fabric of the game with their extortionate salaries and preponderance of overseas players the rot will continue. [color=#FF0000]You only have to look at the ex-league clubs, many with bigger attendances than Torquay, languishing in the Conference as an illustration[/color][/quote]

There are those who want to look at our club as an exception.
We are crap, no good, lacking in ambition etc. We have what we have because of the resources given to us. So many times in the past I have seen the same boring posts accusing but not actuay coming up with the answer or getting off their backsides and helping themselves.
But step back a minute and look at the facts. Most of the things promoted in the past have been tried and they failed. We as fans didn't help much either. I have always done what I could but living a long way away it is not easy promoting the club in Torquay. So I promote them in Gloucestershire as best I can and Chris does what he can with the web site.
Look at clubs who are a lot bigger than us. Bradford City. Yes they get 10,000 plus but only because they practicaly give their tickets away. And have they got anywhere yet. NO.
Cambridge. Wrexham. Grimsby. All arguably bigger than us from a fan base perspective, Luton Town. Huge by our measure. all languishing in the BSP. Last seasons surprise relegation candidate Licoln City Now in danger of going into the Blue Sqaure South or North. both with larger crowds when in our division and within a better radius of geography to attract players. is it any wonder we are a minnow struggling to survive.
The world is changing at a pace which we are struggling to cope with. All of football is hiding in the sand pretending the reccession is not happening. And we are expected to still compete. We are in the most sever depression since the 1930's and with the top clubs spending as if the money tree is still printing money, we as the minnows will be pushed to stay with them spending as if it will work. The financial system is in complete melt down.
Yes it helps if we have the messiah leading us to the promised land but those sort of people are few and far between. I bet no one in the South West could really tell me who the person is who [u]will [/u]lead us into the Championship. No it's impossible. We cannot know what the future holds. We can only try our best. Non of those who would decry our boards efforts would do what our board has done. yes they make mistakes, Show me someone who doesn't. Although some on our forum bahave as if they don't.
If we have the wrong guy and who's to say we have or haven't. We have to let him do what he can now he is here. I will support him to the hilt while he is here. It is to early and way too expensive to replace him. Yes we could sack him, but if we did and he is paid off where does the money come from to replace him. There isn't any. We haven't that sort of budget.
I do know one thing for sure. If I had won the lottery I would have severe doubts about putting my money into a football club, only for some of you to constantly expect me to use it to subsidise their hobby. For that is essentialy what is comes down to. We expect without thinking who we expect to pay for it.

[quote="bobby93"]Iconnection to the area and specif[color=#FF4000] think it also has something to do with the fact that a lot of people currently living in Torbay weren't born here and have no real [/color][color=#FF4000]ically the team. [/color]I have genuinely no problem with that kind of migration, I have no deep seated hatred towards out-of-towners whatsoever, but the last few years have seen a lot of people move here from bigger cities such as Liverpool and Birmingham. Obviously if they are football fans already, they are quite likely to be fans of teams from those areas, and couple with that the greater availability of top flight football on TV, those people, if they have kids, quite often aren't likely to encourage their kids to go see the local team as opposed to following in their dad/mum's footsteps and picking a bigger club who they can see just as easily as TUFC, albeit not in the flesh (does that even matter to a lot of kids?). I think attracting kids is one of the big areas where we need to improve, not just as a football club but the lower leagues in general.

I think people have made that point already but I just wanted to add my thoughts. I may also be talking rubbish but it's the impression I get a lot of the time.[/quote]


I was not born here in the bay. We moved to Devon in August 2004. My husband, son (Ferrarilover) and myself have always been football lovers (Me for 45 of my 55 years here on this Earth) We started going to Plainmoor in the 04/05 season and have not looked back. We are very commited to the club and travel home and away. (With Wondeland, as it happens. Good post, by the way Den).

I do think that the problem with getting the younger generation to support TUFC is the attention that the premiership gets from the media coupled with the lack of it for lower division clubs. You only have to watch the football league show on a Sat. night to see what I'm talking about. League 2. All wrapped up in 7/8 mins. Just not good enough. It's no suprise that the kids are running about in Man U/C/ Arsenal/Chelsea shirts. The media should be paying less attention to the prima donnas of the premiership and more to the struggling clubs in the lower divisions (Not creepy crawley thought!!)

This has been an interesting subject and the postings by wonderland and stefano are right on the mark. I supported Torquay in the 50s and everything I would have said has been said.
In general however I feel that it is only a matter of time before all the smaller league clubs become part-time due to the dominance of the Premier clubs. There is little sentiment for the small clubs and some will certainly go out of business due to lack of support and financial backing. This is sad but until the big clubs recognise that they are destroying the fabric of the game with their extortionate salaries and preponderance of overseas players the rot will continue. You only have to look at the ex-league clubs, many with bigger attendances than Torquay, languishing in the Conference as an illustration

Bobby is right about the kids of Liverpool. Chelsea, Man Utd, Birmingham fans who live in torbay supporting those clubs because its just the way it is in the family. The cost, comfort and simplicity with which these kids can watch their teams in the premiershit makes this easy. I bet many kids have never ever seen their idols in a live game and savoured the gift from God that is a matchday. Many are not likely to in the near future either due to costs, not being able to get a ticket and just plain glory hunting can't be arsed attitude ( amazing how many kids wearing Man City shirts i see on the streets of my town when for the last 10 years of living here i haven't seen any). That said, i don't want to slag the parents off as i will be trying to mould my 2 and half year old into a rounded Torquay fan and we live in Chesterfield! Going by Bobbys argument , my kid should really be supporting Chesterfield and be encouraged to do so by me but thats just not going to happen. Obviously as a kid and at school you often go to your local clubs games with mates for a laugh even though you don't support them. I had many a bruising night on the popside of the old Belle Vue ground watching Donny Rovers in the late 80's early 90's i can tell you! Some kids will deviate and decide to support their local team because they are easily accessible and they can enjoy live football and the experience of a matchday. I truly believe that if the club wants to get kids involved in TUFC then they should be flooding schools in the area with regular offers of free tickets, kids for a quid, get players in there giving talks, all sorts of initiatives can be implemented. Hey, the guys and gals at the club are probably already doing this i don't know, i don't live in the bay. Just a thought.

No you are not talking rubbish Bobby93 as the origins of the population is a factor, but it is not a new phenomenon. Torbay has always been an attractive place to retire for people from all over the country, and when I was working in Torbay in the late 1960's and throughout the 1970's the area was full of younger Scousers, Mancunians, Brummies, and Glaswegians generally working in things like the hotel and tourism industry or unemployed. Back in the 50's and 60's though Plainmoor did attract quite a lot of the 'imports' who did already support teams 'up country', and I would say generally that was because football on television was a rarity and of course transport links weren't as good so going 'back home' to see their home town team wasn't an easy option. There were few motorways, so when I went on the supporters bus for an end of season game at Darlington we left Newton Abbot at 8pm on the Friday for a 3pm Saturday kick off. These days you could safely leave at 8am on the Saturday morning to get there for kick off.

Not that supporters of other teams do travel 'back home' now though. They just buy the replica shirt and stand in a pub shouting at the television screen! ;-)

I think it also has something to do with the fact that a lot of people currently living in Torbay weren't born here and have no real connection to the area and specifically the team. I have genuinely no problem with that kind of migration, I have no deep seated hatred towards out-of-towners whatsoever, but the last few years have seen a lot of people move here from bigger cities such as Liverpool and Birmingham. Obviously if they are football fans already, they are quite likely to be fans of teams from those areas, and couple with that the greater availability of top flight football on TV, those people, if they have kids, quite often aren't likely to encourage their kids to go see the local team as opposed to following in their dad/mum's footsteps and picking a bigger club who they can see just as easily as TUFC, albeit not in the flesh (does that even matter to a lot of kids?). I think attracting kids is one of the big areas where we need to improve, not just as a football club but the lower leagues in general.

I think people have made that point already but I just wanted to add my thoughts. I may also be talking rubbish but it's the impression I get a lot of the time.

Nice recollections there guys. As a bit of a 'noob' only going back to the early 70's, I would have to agree that our natural level is where we are now. We have the occasional excitement of promotion, set against the despair of relegation. We can usually be found at either end of the division with 4 or 5 matches to go, no comfortable mid table berth for us. Thats the way it has been through my time following the Gulls and I dont expect it to change any day soon.
As already said, we had less distractions then. Many a day I would spend 3 or 4 hours kicking a ball around with a few friends in the park, 2 a side, 3 a side, rush goalies etc etc.
I fear those days are well and truly gone now and we have to compete with so much alternative entertainment, it will always be an uphilll battle to maintain interest and increase following at a lower level club.