Reasons for our good form + recent games review

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Expand view Topic review: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by Trojan 67 » 08 Dec 2011, 19:13

Don't start me on Stevens and his twin. :@

Dot and Sunny end to end don't add up to the whole 9ft. :devil:

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by AustrianAndyGull » 08 Dec 2011, 16:45

Sorry Bigman, i didn't mention the frontmen also doing hard work. It was an oversight but in the interests of balance they have all been grafting these last two months you're right. My only slight concern and i'm nitpicking is that at Vale and vs Sheff Utd we did spend lots of the game on the back foot ( understandably at United) and we haven't been able to a certain extent to get the passing game going as we would like and mount sustained attacks, even at Chesterfield too we have sort of played on the break. This maybe is how the games would have panned out anyway but i don't want to see us retreating too much as an attacking force away from home so that we end up going back to square one losing our confidence and scratching our heads. In our last three away games we could have easily lost all three, we didn't i know but i don't really think we deserved to win any of them (maybe Sheff Utd). Possibly i am slightly worrying unecessarily but its just in the back of my mind. Anyone else feel similar or if not just tell me to stop being such a pessimistic clown!

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by Bigman » 08 Dec 2011, 16:34

Mr Deckchair has hit the nail on the head there I think - Lathrope does the protecting and donkey work, freeing up other players to play to their strengths. Credit goes to the whole team for adapting well to this system though, as it means the front men have to put in a shift too, but they're doing it very well and reaping the rewards. Credit should also go to the manager for assessing the players at his disposal and arriving at a successful system - almost makes the shoddy performances and results earlier in the season worthwhile :)

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by AustrianAndyGull » 08 Dec 2011, 16:22

Yep Steve thats pretty much how i see it. Damon does so much spade work just in front of the back four that it enables the energy of Manse to flourish and the distribution and vision of Eunan also. I think we should also give a big pat on the back to the defence also as they have worked tirelessly and held firm generally. Bobby has also been a big part of this.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by SteveDeckchair » 08 Dec 2011, 13:22

We were clearly struggling with Mansell and O'Kane in the middle earlier in the season. Manse as a box to box player was restricting O'Kane's game and I don't think they will ever work together as a two with Manse playing that role.

The introduction of Damon Lathrope was the key to unleashing our midfield potential and we haven't looked back since. Manse can go box to box, O'Kane has the freedom to express himself and the defense aren't left exposed. Everything else just clicks into place around those three. Simples.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by Dave » 08 Dec 2011, 09:55

Sunny wrote:JUST WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH DANNY STEVENS ???? When he plays well, scores, makes goals you still have something to moan about. When others have a poor game I don't see you mentioning them and running them down do as you do with Danny. Do you actually know him and he's done something to p**s you off, or is it that he's better looking than you, because there has to be a reason why you are so against him.

Ling has given him the chance to prove himself and he has definately done that, he's scored 5 goals so far and although unfortunately TUFC lost on Saturday, the last goal by Danny was brilliant and even the commentator on Sky Sports remarked on his goal.
Sunny, from your posts whch are almost entirely in defense of Danny Stevens, i would say you either know him well, or care very much about him as a player.

My suggestion would be to realise this is a fan's forum, just an exchange of opinion's, dont take to heart, after all only the opinion of Martin Ling counts in the end ;-)

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by Sexy_Gulls » 07 Dec 2011, 16:43

If the level Danny has shown over the last 4 or 5 games is his real level then I'm more than happy for he to be in the first XI. I think that if this form proves just to be a brief peak then he clearly isn't good enough.
Ling has clearly shown he is able to tweak both formations and players individual instructions and it is his reading of the game and ability to act on it that plays a big part in our current form IMO.
For example in the first half against Plymouth Danny was wandering all over the place and was very infective. Second half he seemed to hug the touchline a lot more and provided a much better outlet for the midfield to pass to. (though he was quite central when he picked the ball up for his goal)

The tweak in the formation to bring in a third midfielder, and put faith in a fringe player to play the DM role, has worked wonders. As has been noted it allows the other 2 midfielders to push up more. Ling clearly tried to get 4-4-2 to work and rightly gave it time, but clearly our squad isn't suited to it. Mansell and O'kane are too lightweight to dominate the midfield (especially in the air), our wingers aren't disciplined enough to track back with the full backs and we don't have a good enough 2nd striker to justify playing two. 4-51/4-3-3 gets the most out of the squad I feel. We have a striker that probably works best on his own and can play the quick Stevens and Bodin in on goal, we also have the best footballer in the division in O'Kane who must be largely liberated of defensive duties and allowed to pull the strings. Lathrope as DM also frees the wingers up as he can cover their side of the pitch if they are caught out. So well done Ling was getting the tactics right. Anything other than 4-4-2 isn't popular in the English lower league but the current formation is clearly the best for our squad.

Getting the squad to realise the strengths and weaknesses of their teammates has also taken time. Mansell and O'kane have had to learn that Rene Howe is not that quick so through balls for him to run onto may not work as well as it did for Zebroski or Robinson last season. The new back 5 have taken time to gel, Saah came in for a lot of stick but I thought he was steadily improving and looked imperious before he limped off against Plymouth. I've noticed that recently the back 5 trust each other a lot more and Olenjik has done a great job in leading them. Oastler must also be give praise as he is no longer the liability he was at the beginning of the season. Ling has done well to stick with him (though with Leadbitter out he hasn't really had much choice)

I feel that our form at the moment is roughly near our natural level. We haven't been lucky as we've dominated games and produced chances that are well worked and beat the defence with skill rather than pot luck. I agree with the above poster who says that Ling has done well in not signing anyone therefore giving the current players confidence, however I would like to see one more striker brought in to cover Howe. I have some faith in Atieno, well faith in Ling's ability to make him, so I wouldnt want to see his type of player come in.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by AustrianAndyGull » 07 Dec 2011, 16:33

Sunny i see where you're coming from but i agree with Matt. I have nothing at all personally against Stevens, its just that in 4 or 5 years of seeing him play ( obviously not in every game but enough to have formed my basis for dislike ) i haven't seen anything to convince me that he is a good player let alone league 2 level. Now i'm not saying i could be a football manager and can see things others can't but in my fairly basic book of what i personally would require in a player of Dannys mould he isn't good enough IMO. Not once to memory have i EVER seen him stitch up a few defenders on the flank sprint to the touchline and deliver a majestic cross - it may not be a big part of his game but he ALWAYS cuts inside / back and either lays it off simple or runs into trouble as he doesn't have any dribbling ability. Yes he HAS scored goals like this but i believe not by judgement. Take saturdays goal at United. He basically ran onto an inviting ball and didn't really have any option but to shoot in that position. Anyone running onto a ball given a free shot at goal would do the same. It was a good finish granted but he had other chances in the game which were relatively poor for someone with the ability you say. He buzzes about the place and keeps himself busy but even then he can spend large portions of games completely anonymous as he is content to sit out on the flank and not get involved. This happens understandably in games where we are under the cosh and can't get balls to him but instead of dropping deep and central he just stays there with a complete lack of a footballing mind. He ALWAYS jockeys players and never gets f*****g stuck in there and you may say what would i expect him to do? I expect him to put pressure on players get a foot in, get a shoulder in instead of jockeying all the bloody time. There are times when this is effective but most of the time get a foot in and try and win the bloody ball! I'm not going to convince the Stevens love party that my arguments are not based solely on hatred which is a shame as i believe i have put forward reasonable arguments as to why i don't rate Danny as a footballer. I have no hatred for Danny. Quite simply in the 4 or 5 years of watching him he hasn't improved and we all know what to expect from him which isn't anything greatly exciting. So he has scored 5 goals is it this season. He plays as an attacker, even if he is shite he is going to get goals isn't he?!! I bet Tai would have got the same if he would have started lots of games and i don't much rate him either. Its law of averages i'm afraid.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by Southampton Gull » 07 Dec 2011, 16:06

tufcbrett wrote:Matt this might come to a suprise to many, But Danny is thought of very highly within the sqaud.

I talk to Mr Branston on occasions and he said the talent has always been there, just need his chance on the pitch. Its come to no suprise that Danny is doing well.

To me he is a good footballer, not blessed with height or srength but we all cant be perfect. I agree over the last few seasons hes not done much. Last time i felt he was doing anything was last season in the BSP. Most people have have worked in the club or still do, do think Danny is good enough for league 2. So theres no doubt that the ability is there as we all seen it last few weeks, just what people have quite rightly said he needs to be consistant else that talent is just watsed.

For me the change in form is not down to a single player, i just feel Ling has found the right system and each player fits in well in it. Nice to see players are being used to their strengths.

Ive always loved a defensive mid player, gives that extra cover to the back 4 that i feel every team needs. Damon has come in and done really well, thich is very good. This has given Mans and O'Kane more chance to push forward with less worries. Again Rene up top using his strength, size and ability with two quick guys playing off him is also working a treat. The players have been great but its nice to see the coaching staff in training have found how to make there system work.

Why would that be such a surprise? He's been here for four seasons, he wouldn't have lasted that long if nobody liked him. That doesn't mean he'a any good though. He's hit a purple patch, big deal, some of us have paid out thousands of pounds over the last four years to watch him serve up dross most of the time so we're entitled to ciriticise him if that's what we want to do. As it happens, when he's playing well he's a joy to watch, it just doesn't happen as often as it should.

As for talking to Branston about him, what do you expect him to say? "He's shit, couldn't tackle a wet paper bag". I know, I'm being facetious, but the point is, we all know what Danny is capable of, we also know he hasn't maintained any form for long in the last 4 years. Maybe, just maybe, Martin Ling is the man to do bring it out of him, I hope so, nothing personal against Danny Stevens, no matter how many of his family want to come on here sticking up for him, but if we pay our hard-earned to watch him play, we're entitled to air our views.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by tufcbrett » 07 Dec 2011, 12:54

Matt this might come to a suprise to many, But Danny is thought of very highly within the sqaud.

I talk to Mr Branston on occasions and he said the talent has always been there, just need his chance on the pitch. Its come to no suprise that Danny is doing well.

To me he is a good footballer, not blessed with height or srength but we all cant be perfect. I agree over the last few seasons hes not done much. Last time i felt he was doing anything was last season in the BSP. Most people have have worked in the club or still do, do think Danny is good enough for league 2. So theres no doubt that the ability is there as we all seen it last few weeks, just what people have quite rightly said he needs to be consistant else that talent is just watsed.

For me the change in form is not down to a single player, i just feel Ling has found the right system and each player fits in well in it. Nice to see players are being used to their strengths.

Ive always loved a defensive mid player, gives that extra cover to the back 4 that i feel every team needs. Damon has come in and done really well, thich is very good. This has given Mans and O'Kane more chance to push forward with less worries. Again Rene up top using his strength, size and ability with two quick guys playing off him is also working a treat. The players have been great but its nice to see the coaching staff in training have found how to make there system work.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by ferrarilover » 07 Dec 2011, 11:42

Sunny,

Brother, do us all a favour and don't quote the whole post, there's a good chap.

Secondly, have you considered that Andy has spent (as have we all) the last 4 years watching Danny being just about the worst player at the club, and it's taking more than a third of a season of good form to change his opinion totally?
Please, tell us why you rate him as highly as you seem to.
Yes, he's hit some good form just lately, but there is no saying that will last. He certainly doesn't seem to have demonstrated too much natural aptitude to play above this level, indicating that he relies more on hard work than God given talent. This is fine, but with no real skill to fall back on, impact wains with a lack of effort, enforced or otherwise.
I'd love to see him continue the way he is presently, but I don't think he will. This isn't a downer on the boy, it's just the way of life. Eunan will always be as good as he is, because he is such a talent, Danny, I'm not so sure.

Matt.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by Sunny » 07 Dec 2011, 11:22

austrianandygull wrote:At times during our 7 game run without a win i honestly couldn't see the wood for the trees. We let in 3 in the first half at home to Rotherham, conceded late on at home to Morecambe, put in two of the worst performances i have EVER seen from a Torquay side against Shrewsbury and 10 man Bradford and were battered out of sight by Gillingham and Southend. At Bradford i sat in the stands and simply could not believe what i was witnessing out there on the pitch. Andrew Davies gets dismissed after about 20 minutes, they go one up and we hardly get out of our own half after spending 70 minutes passing the ball sideways. It was truly demoralising and came off the back of a similar performance away at Shrewsbury.

After our heavy defeat by the seaside at Roots Hall many people were seriously questioning Lings tenure as manager of Torquay not to mention his ability as a manager and as a recruiter of players. Saah was being pilloried and calls for Ellis were made by some, me included. I confess to not being overjoyed at Lings appointment and doubted his credentials, our bad run of form during this period plus the defensive floodgates opening with alarming regularity led me to believe i was correct in my assumptions. I was never AT ANY POINT calling for Ling to be sacked or resign but from what i'd seen in games thus far we had been far too sterile, too negative and didn't work hard enough. Obviously there are tactics and formations to take into consideration when sending out a team; however, i just thought that at least if we address these issues and see what happens then we'll see where we are.

October 25th, tuesday night at Plainmoor vs AFC Wimbledon was the unexpected turning point and set us up for where we are now. I couldn't see it coming and i'm sure many of you guys couldn't also. This game and the game vs Hereford at home the saturday following had some people saying 4 points at least here and the pressure is off Martin for the time being. I joked with the lad who works in my local bookies when he asked me how i thought we would do tonight ( vs AFC ) and i said given our propensity to ship goals faster than the speed of light and our propensity to score goals too it would be 3-3. We battered them out of sight 4-0 and followed up with a comfortable 2-0 win against Hereford too.

I didn't see any of those games but i did go to Crewe the next weekend and we absolutely blew them away. Yes they weren't great but i refuse to let anything take the edge of that performance, we were so positive, so confident in possession, working hard with and without the ball and creating chances. It was an absolute joy to watch and well worth the £19 ( yes £19 to sit down at Crewe - robbing t***s! ) i paid on the day. Everybody put in a real shift and were first to everything and contrasting that with the Bradford performance it really became apparent that a positive, confident, hard working approach had worked wonders. There were a few players that could have done a lot more without the ball that day like Howe BUT the last 3 games i've seen he has really worked hard, never given anything up and he looks fitter and more mobile.

Chesterfield in the cup, get in there just down the road from me. Defeat expected. Didn't play that well as an attacking force but kept up the work ethic and graft against a team a league above and we scored three great goals. This game made me applaud the character and resolve of the lads as when they equalised i thought that we would capitulate and get beaten three or four. We didn't. We dug in, stood firm and fashioned the odd chance out of nothing that were clinically despatched by Howe and Nico.

We beat the gargs 3-1 following this, a game most expected a win from so perhaps the pressure was more on the lads - that and it being an eagerly anticipated local derby. Character and spirit in abundance.

We then went to Vale Park on a freezing night in the potteries, i wouldn't have wanted to be in shorts on that night i can tell you! We had the odd chance but were under the cosh a little by a big, strong Vale side with a few tricky attackers. The workrate and desire to track back and win the ball especially from our defence was noticable - i even gave my man of the match to Oastler, he was that dogged.

Then came the sour defeat at the weekend at Bramall Lane. The stats say we lost the game but for nearly 70 minutes we were absolutely unbelievable trying to hold on to a lead against what is effectively a championship side at home. They have got full internationals in the squad whilst we are just happy tohave a full squad! But for 2 humongous errors by Ellis and Bobby and we could have drawn that game or even got the win. I was proud to support Torquay that day despite some idiotic chanting and despite me leaving the stadium after the third went in. I left the stadium not because i was deeply unhappy as the team had played shite but because i was SO annoyed and frustrated you wouldn't believe and i had problems dealing with it so i just left. I apportion no blame to Ellis and Bobby for the errors as they are just things that can happen. Yes you could argue they should have done better but the rest of the game they were both immense, they were ALL immense.

Getting to end of the novel now and i put forward my theory as to why we have improved so much since the Shrimpers battering. Simple, everybody working their b******s off, trusting each other and believing that they can go out there and do the business against anyone - and i believe generally they can. We have had key players out at various stages Saah, Morris, Bodin, O'Kane and Lathrope yet we have still progressed and dealt with it. Ling has got his tactics and selection spot on AND he has approached the games in a POSITIVE manner believing the lads can get a result anywhere. I know it can, and will change soon and we will have another bad spell but Ling and the players have proved to us that they are good enough to compete at this level, a couple at a higher level like Damon, Eunan, Manse, Bobby, Rene, Ellis maybe and a couple should be at a lower level IMHO like Stevens, Atieno and McPhee but i'm not going to stop thanking them for giving their all to us fans in recent weeks, especially away from home where we spend shedloads of money to watch them and lots of time too. Thats all we ask. Congrats to Martin and the lads for a great last 1 and a half months!

As as side issue, does anyone reckon Saah will fit straight in to the starting line up after he recovers from injury? Despite Ellis using his leg as a nine iron on saturday, i still prefer the defensive line up we now have.
JUST WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH DANNY STEVENS ???? When he plays well, scores, makes goals you still have something to moan about. When others have a poor game I don't see you mentioning them and running them down do as you do with Danny. Do you actually know him and he's done something to p**s you off, or is it that he's better looking than you, because there has to be a reason why you are so against him.

Ling has given him the chance to prove himself and he has definately done that, he's scored 5 goals so far and although unfortunately TUFC lost on Saturday, the last goal by Danny was brilliant and even the commentator on Sky Sports remarked on his goal.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by AustrianAndyGull » 07 Dec 2011, 09:59

Cheers Matt for the kind words.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by royalgull » 07 Dec 2011, 09:55

Sometimes not signing someone is just as important as signing someone. Ling saying in public (during our bad run) that he has 100% faith in the lads in the squad here to turn it around and that he wouldn't sign anybody looks as though it gave the players that extra bit of motivation and maybe confidence. Our much maligned paper thin squad has also most importantly come up trumps. Thus far Ellis has stepped into the defence extremely well, Lathrope has come into the team and played his part and also Stevens is showing a consistency that he has never shown. That's credit to the individuals (all 3 were previous subs) as well as the coaching staff for seemingly getting a consistency out of 3 traditionally inconsistant players. I also think we have 1 or 2 others currently not playing that if were needed wouldn't let anybody down either.

I've warmed to Ling, he wasn't my 5th choice at the start of the season but the players respect him, he knows how to get the best out of what he's got and he doesn't moan about stuff. He just quietly gets on with things and he knows what he wants. Doesn't complicate things and doesn't ask players to do things they aren't happy doing. One criticism of PB which I would agree with was at times too many square pegs in round holes, and often he'd be moving around who I felt were our better players to accomodate others. Ling doesn't do that, I am certain had PB been in charge when we lost O Kane to suspension and then Lathrope he'd have changed our system, Ling hasn't. He knows the players are happy in it and it's up to someone else to come in and do a job within that framework. For me, that's the way to go. don't complicate things, especially with lower league footballers that possibly don't have the quality to keep changing systems.

A month or so ago I thought there were more questions than answers with a lot of our squad but a lot of them have now answered them with flying colours, the likes of Oastler, Lathrope, Saah, Stevens and Ellis, I now feel totally fine with them playing for us in League 2 whereas I had doubts not so long ago. There are some we still don't know about but I look at the spine of our team and it's very strong for this level Olejnik - Saah/Robbo/Ellis - O Kane Mansell - Howe, we've got 3 of the outstanding players in this league for me there in Olejnik, O Kane and Howe. It will keep us around the middle of the table. In the same way the players aren't world beaters now, they weren't utterly useless a month ago either. We are what we are and that's a solid League 2 side that on our day can beat anyone in this league and if we aren't at it can lose to anyone in this league.

I think we'll win slightly more than we lose over the course of the season, finish around 12th/13th place and that will represent an excellent achievement for this squad this season with the difficulties Ling has been presented with in terms of making this squad.

Re: Reasons for our good form + recent games review

by ferrarilover » 07 Dec 2011, 00:30

You remember I said a few months ago now, that I was really disappointed with something (stupid) you had said, not because it was intrinsically stupid, but because you are capable of so much better. Well this, motherlover, is the sort of thing I was talking about.

Top drawer OP, not seen one that good (except in the matchday threads, eh Nick ;-) ) for a while.

It helps, of course, that you're right. ML has turned around what was a disastrous opening few games. I, like Dave, managed to keep the faith with him, understanding that he's a new manager in a tough division, working on a budget of £6.50, and I'm glad I did. Same thing happened with PB the start of the second year in the Conference, and, despite his problems (massive ego, tiny penis brain) look where he took us in the end.

Matt.

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