Torquay United Fans Forum

I think its far too early to judge our youth system. As said before in similar discussions, the current crop of youngsters were the first bunch to be brought through and will not be the best talent from the area.

We do seem to have some prospects coming through such as Kuqi and yet another Nardiello. I think I'd prefer to see two or three groups brought through before we can genuinely state whether it works or not.

I listened to what the former Co-op Welfare milkman said at the fanfest on Monday. We do have the talent in the south west counties to make a good fist of it. That former Co-op Welfare milkman is Mike Bickle and standing alongside was Johnnie Hore. The point he made was that Argyle were good enough with local talent to hold its own in the two middle tiers of the Football League.

Torquay United was no different and is no different. It's belief and hard honest work that brings the local talent on and forward. Ken and Phil Sandercock, both Plymouth buhys, served Torquay United well. Then there's "fiery Fred" (Fred Binney), Dockyard apprentice, who turned out for Torquay United as an amateur, later as a professional. TUFC never saw the best of Fred, Exeter, Brighton Argyle and Hereford did.

My point is, the be all and end all is not only youth football, some come into the professional game later.

Kevin Hill ?

You can't help in thinking that Yeoman's career hasn't developed like the coaching staff had hoped...

He made one bench appearance two years ago (against Oxford?) and hasn't played since. Very promising that he was given a go so early but he clearly hasn't progressed like they expected, as he has only sat on the bench twice this season...

Thanks, it was, as you can see, very late when I posted that and, truth be told, I knew PV was wrong but couldn't be arsed to google the right answer. My point holds firm though.

Matt.

[color=#FF0000]David Beckham was once on loan at Port Vale[/color]

Beckham was PNE not Port Vale Matt. :~D

All these youngsters need to be moved if we don't think they are going to make very good players. We can't keep carrying them on the hope that they will come good. Lower league clubs have a youth setup to make profit, the profit is made in selling that player. Youth players need to be breaking into the first team by 18, 19 latest. There is alot of talent in Devon and Cornwall it just has to be found. I played for the TUFC youth teams (under 11's and up) and when we played teams from Devon there was loads of kids who were really good. At these games there was scouts and on time in particular one of our players was picked up by Port Vale. I played against Seth Johnson at when he played for Dawlish Generals, he was the show yet none of the TUFC guys at that game ever spoke to him and he ended up at Crewe.

[quote="brucie"]Plain fact is none of these players are good enough. Palmer is playing for Truro. Spear was on loan to Bideford. Macklin is at Salisbury. Ok Macklin scored today but he came off the bench ie he couldn't even get in their first eleven.
Unfortunately these players are not going to make the grade.[/quote]

David Beckham was once on loan at Port Vale... Palmer is PLAYING for Truro, he is PLAYING for Truro because that is where we sent him. We're not exactly going to send him to Barcelona, are we? Macklin was brilliant against Exeter, looked a class apart and scored against Cheltenham in the paint pot trophy and scored again today. We're told by those who have seen him that he has played well at Salisbury. Since you've been to one game this year and he wasn't involved in that, I fail to see how you can adjudicate upon his ability.

I, as most here, am disappointed at the lack of progression being made by our juniors. This really isn't meant as a dig at McPhee, but surely Halpin couldn't do any worse? Sadly, with football, if you haven't made it by the time you're 19 or 20, chances are, you're not going to make it at all, especially as a youngster. Obviously, there are exceptions from the non-league we could all name (Ross Hannah, Smalling at Man Utd, Ian Wright etc), but these guys who have lived and breathed little other than football since they were small are going to need to do it now, or find a new career.

The one I am keen to see progress is Aaron Kudi. He always looks good when I see him for the kids or the reserves and I think he could add to our team in a similar way to my other favourite fringe player, LRT.

Matt.

Building youth sides take a long time. When i started at Cardiff i was working with the youth sides there. Some of them kids are unreal. Luckily for them the hour and half rule came in as the big clubs would have taken there younger players else.

Cardiff last season released 1/2 of there under 18s as they were only able to take 9 of them into the first team. 1 kid who got released signed for chelsea the week later.

Im pretty sure if the kids were good enough, they would be playing more. Managers are not stupid, you play your best players what ever there age. Maybe there not ready, or simpily not good enough. Im sure we will find out soon enough.

Cheers forever, good info and an interesting read.

I personally think the last nugget we had was Mike Williamson. Now back in the solid defence that so outplayed Man Ure the other night they subbed both Rooney and Berbatov.

[quote="austrianandygull"]Thanks forever but if a boy has to live within 1 and a half hour of Crewe then surely that boy would have a glut of clubs to choose from as Crewe is not as geographically isolated as Torquay. This surely makes it HARDER for Crewe as they are having to compete with other clubs such as Stoke, Vale, Shrewsbury, Macclesfield, Wrexhm, Wolves etc?[/quote]

Not really, clubs tend to have maximum numbers at each age group 11 a side i think it is around 22 players per squad and around 14 per mini soccer age group, and young footballers wont just jump for the biggest club, families will tend to look at reputation , good coaching organisation etc , and what acadmey gives the child the best chance of progressing, and Crewe are widely regarded as one of the best acadmey clubs outside the top flight.

To be fair to our club, we only re-started our youth system i think 4 years ago, our club are a long way behind, however they are working hard improving every year, not so long ago our C/O/E were using goals held together with string and losing to Swansea/Bournemouth by over 10 goals at most age groups, they now have brand new goals, and are winning games against against those teams at some groups, not all however.

They have a long way to go, one of the reasons why i support eppp, it is going to force clubs like our to improve, and hopefully we are not to long away from producing young players capable of stepping up , like those who are at Crewe, it is vital long term for our club.

So get rid of the reserves then? Makes sense to me, if like forever says we hardly ever pick up any decent youngsters then whats the point in having youth teams and wasting everyones time?

Plain fact is none of these players are good enough. Palmer is playing for Truro. Spear was on loan to Bideford. Macklin is at Salisbury. Ok Macklin scored today but he came off the bench ie he couldn't even get in their first eleven.
Unfortunately these players are not going to make the grade.

Thanks forever but if a boy has to live within 1 and a half hour of Crewe then surely that boy would have a glut of clubs to choose from as Crewe is not as geographically isolated as Torquay. This surely makes it HARDER for Crewe as they are having to compete with other clubs such as Stoke, Vale, Shrewsbury, Macclesfield, Wrexhm, Wolves etc?

In my opinion I think the only player that could do any good in the first team would be Spear. In the PSF's he showed a touch of class, he's got pace and skill on and off the ball. What I have seen of Palmer, Halpin, Yeoman is that I don't think any of them could get in the first. I have to admit I haven't been to any reserve games this year so I'm just basing my opinion on the PSF'S, but what I've seen in pre season is that Spear is the only youngster that would be any good.

[quote="austrianandygull"]Fair points Forever. I've never seen any of our youngsters play so i can't comment on their ability, it just seems sad that teams like Crewe can unearth talent in the local area, and have the bravery to play them and let them develop and find their feet in league football. Many move on to somewhere better - so what? If they're any good they will. If it's a case of finance then there is little point of us having a youth team. Can someone tell me the last 'nugget' we had come up through the ranks?[/quote]

The last real home grown nugget was Gary Monk, a Torquay lad came through our old C/O/E now playing in the premier league with Swansea.

Glad you brought up Crewe , there are many differences, they have been investing in youth development for years , where as our club dropped it's youth system, only to re-start it in 2007, also clubs have to abide by F.A rules, one of these state that a young player (u16) must live with in 1hr 30 mins of the clubs training base, for us it means having the pick of young players fromTruro up to Taunton and across into North devon, not quite the same catchment area and renound hotbed of football that Crewe is handly placed in.

To put it politly there are more boys up around Crewe area, and and the quailty is better.