Giving up on Bodin

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Re: Giving up on Bodin

by ferrarilover » 07 Feb 2012, 13:46

brucie wrote:What a load of tosh. I have seen Bodin three or four times. He is a decent enough prospect at 19 but he is nothing that special either. he might be worth 25k at the moment but he certainly isn't worth any more than that. he is worth a fraction of O'kanes value.
Comparing Bodin to Macklin is equally insane. Bodin has shown that he is able to make an impact at League 2 level. Macklin has been here nigh on 3 years and has shown exactly bugger all.
Lots of potential? - you are having a laugh. If he was going to establish himself this would have been the year. he has been farmed off to Salisbury for a reason.
Contract is up at the end of the season when he will be shown the door - does anyone seriously think Ling will keep him?
As I have said before he is another Jake Thomson, without the talent that is.
The red bit clearly demonstrates why you are in absolutely no position to say the blue bit.

I know what you're saying, and why you're saying it as you are, but you don't half offer yourself up to take a whacking.

Your point on Macklin might well be right, but then we'd have probably said exactly the same about Danny a year ago. Give the lad a run in the side, see what he can do if really given a chance, then, if he's still hit and miss and not especially good when he's on hit, then sack him off.

As for this debate, it could go on forever (no pun intended), but I think both Frev (as always) and Royal (equally always) have pretty much hit the nail on the head from both sides of the coin.

Matt.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by brucie » 07 Feb 2012, 12:46

What a load of tosh. I have seen Bodin three or four times. He is a decent enough prospect at 19 but he is nothing that special either. he might be worth 25k at the moment but he certainly isn't worth any more than that. he is worth a fraction of O'kanes value.
Comparing Bodin to Macklin is equally insane. Bodin has shown that he is able to make an impact at League 2 level. Macklin has been here nigh on 3 years and has shown exactly bugger all.
Lots of potential? - you are having a laugh. If he was going to establish himself this would have been the year. he has been farmed off to Salisbury for a reason.
Contract is up at the end of the season when he will be shown the door - does anyone seriously think Ling will keep him?
As I have said before he is another Jake Thomson, without the talent that is.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by Dave » 07 Feb 2012, 10:23

TUFC92 wrote:Thing is though Forever, I don't think Ling is busting his balls to get Bodin back here in the slightest. I don't think he has since Bodin went back to Swindon.

Bodin has a lot of potential for sure, but so does Macklin. If Macklin played every game from now til the end of the season, played really well, would he be worth 250k? No, because his previous experience isn't good enough, he won't of taken the world by storm scoring in every game, and it could just be a case of short term form.

Eunan is worth a hell of a lot more than Bodin because of the consistency, ability, and the more experience that he has. Bodin has only played around 25 games, and has scored 5 goals. Not an amazing record.

I think Bodin will end up playing at a higher level than League Two, but I certainly feel that Eunan has much higher potential than Bodin.
Dont get me wrong I am not diss-argeeing generaly with what people are saying, I think the point has been missed some what though, Bodin is 19 , he as you say has played around 20 games, considering a number off the bench he actually has 7 career goals not bad return from that number of games, think about some of his performances for Torquay where he showed he is more than comfortable at this level.

Now wind the clock on 2 years when Bodin will be 21, and may well have 60-80 games under his belt, not aiming this at you, but hand on heart can any one really say that Bodin in 2 years from now considering what he is already capable of, with pretty much no experience, wont be in the same position that Eunan is now in terms of development.

I really am not saying that Bodin is worth £250k , however what Royal says is right which I think we all agree, Swindon are in a position where by they can slap that price tag on him, knowing if he leaves in the summer they will get money for him no matter what, there hope I should imagine is some one would have paid that to avoid the tribunal lottery, and get there man.

As for Lingy busting a gut, I think when I heard Lingy say in a interveiw that he was prepared to wait for Bodin, and pretty much made Bodin his no 1 transfer target, and only last week said, despite having little or no chance , he was going to make one last call to Swindon, suggets to me, Martin Ling is more than keen.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by royalgull » 07 Feb 2012, 09:52

Matt you are speaking in a framework that doesn't always work for everybody. They reckon strikers 'peak at 27-30' Well Michael Owen didn't. I would say his peak was when he was a lot younger than that, so did Robbie Fowler and there are others. 27 would seem about right because obviously you've learnt more about the game, got games under the belt and all the rest of it but it's not a definite for everybody. Who knows, Tubbs might be brilliant for Bournemouth for the next 5/6 years meaning their outlay is pittance by the end of that.

Eunan is worth a great deal more. If we were in Swindon's boat no doubt in my opinion. he has more strings to his bow, is a technically better footballer than Bodin but they play in different positions so it is tricky to gauge their individual merits. But the be all and end all is we aren't in swindon's position. We've just let one of our best players go for less than £100k, in the summer we let our top scorer go for less than £100k.

If Bournemouth offered Swindon £250,000 for Bodin they might say no, if Bournemouth offered us £250,000 for O'Kane we COULDN'T say no. Simple as that. There is no categories for what players are worth, no minimum they are worth. They are worth what the selling club can't turn down, bottom line.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by TUFC92 » 07 Feb 2012, 09:32

Thing is though Forever, I don't think Ling is busting his balls to get Bodin back here in the slightest. I don't think he has since Bodin went back to Swindon.

Bodin has a lot of potential for sure, but so does Macklin. If Macklin played every game from now til the end of the season, played really well, would he be worth 250k? No, because his previous experience isn't good enough, he won't of taken the world by storm scoring in every game, and it could just be a case of short term form.

Eunan is worth a hell of a lot more than Bodin because of the consistency, ability, and the more experience that he has. Bodin has only played around 25 games, and has scored 5 goals. Not an amazing record.

I think Bodin will end up playing at a higher level than League Two, but I certainly feel that Eunan has much higher potential than Bodin.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by Dave » 07 Feb 2012, 00:57

As yes Matt, but is Eunan O'Kane that much better than Billy Bodin, who also when he is on it, can beat his man with ease, has a fair bit of trickery in his locker, can pass, can also strike a ball , it's being proved right here and now, How many goals has Bodin scored, how many has O'Kane scored, can really only go on this season as Bodin appears if I have read his profile right, only to have played 4 match's last season, and by the way managed to bag himself a goal, that was in league 1.

I think you some what missed the point, I am in no way doubting Eunan's quality , or the fact he has more experience and is ahead in terms development so therefore should be worth more at this stage , see the bigger picture on Billy Bodin,the fact that he is 2 years younger, only played a handful of league games, yet is scoring goals and looks so comfortable at league 2 level should be hitting home.

And is the every reason that Lingy is busting his balls to get back here, because I think he can see excatly what I can, a young player who is going rise through the league's to the same point that Eunan will.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by ferrarilover » 07 Feb 2012, 00:40

Eerm, no, Frev, it's not, as explained above...

Eunan is a much better player than Billy, that really is all there is to it. You look and you see just how good Eunan is. You don't have to look very hard, because it is blatantly obvious, when he is at it, he is a real class apart from everyone else on the pitch. The way he creates space or goes past a bloke without doing anything, the way he anticipates passes and lays off balls, the way he strikes the ball, the way he does everything, is just better than everyone else.
Trouble is, its a X factor, it's not a tangible quality, its indefinable. You try explaining to a non football fan why Wayne Rooney plays in the Premier League and Billy Kee doesn't. You won't be able to do it because it's impossible. There is no rhyme or reason why Rooney is better than Kee, he just is. Obviously, he's a bit fitter, and bit faster, but in terms of pure ability, Rooney does maybe one thing a season which Billy is physically incapable of doing. A piece of absolute magic which makes him Premier League, but aside from that, they do exactly the same things week in and week out, yet we all know that Rooney is miles better than Kee.
It's exactly the same with Billy Bodin and Eunan, Eunan is just better somehow, thus, he is worth a great deal more.

Matt.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by Dave » 07 Feb 2012, 00:31

Is this not the case of us Torquay fan's either completely overrating Eunan O'kane or underrating Billy Bodin to suit our own ends , as said they are both under 21 internationals , they are both current league 2 players.

Yes Eunan O'Kane had a much longer contract, as pointed out above has more experience , he also 2 years older, taking that into account and looking at Bodin who has only 20 or so senior games under his belt, and already looks every bit as comfortable in his league surroundings, as Eunan does, Bodin scored 5 goals for us, and already has 1 goal ,in 1 and half games back at Swindon is beginning to prove he can score goals for fun at this level.

There is no doubt what so ever that Billy Bodin has every bit the same potential that Eunan O'Kane has, 5 years down the line I have no doubt that they will both still be playing football at the same level, there is a very , very good reason why Martin Ling is climbing mountains and busting down tree's, trying to get Billy Bodin back here.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by ferrarilover » 06 Feb 2012, 23:58

I was also wondering about Macklin. Dinger has shown that he is happy to show faith in players who have never really been favoured during their time here (Danny being the obvious), but he seems not to have extended that same faith to Lloyd, so we have to assume that there is just something about him that managers either don't like, or don't trust.

As to Nick's point about EoK being good L1, I know, I know, he's not REALLY a Championship player yet, but my point seemed unfairly diluted by putting L1, so I went a little overboard for dramatic effect.

And on Tubbs, well, I'm sure he'll do just fine in L1, but is he the best they could have got for £800 large, no, most certainly not. It's not like he's 19, the bloke is 27, this, right now, as impressive as it is, is as good as he is ever going to get, it's all downhill from here, and while that might be excellent news for skiers, it's awful news for Ballmouth.

Time will tell.

Matt.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by TUFC92 » 06 Feb 2012, 22:32

Don't think we should be accepting anything less than 500k for Eunan, his potential, current ability and his length of contract gives us the option to hold out for the best possible deal for the club.

Bodin isn't worth anywhere near the 250k price tag that PDC has slapped on him but it looks like he is now a part of the plans at Swindon (for now anyway) and PDC can put whatever price tag he wants on him!

It's a shame really, because we could, and should, have a ready made replacement for Bodin already in the squad, Lloyd Macklin. Just a shame that he doesn't seem able to step it up. He has fantastic pace, good ability, but there is something not quite right, whether it is attitude, poor performance in training etc, this could of been his opportunity to get in the first 11 and make that spot his own.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by stevegull » 06 Feb 2012, 20:48

NickGull wrote:Would say O'Kane looks a top L1 player at the minute, with potential - I don't think he'd walk into a Championship team right now, personally. In my mind though, baring in mind the amount of money being thrown around by clubs then O'Kane is worth half a million. He has the potential to be a top player in the Championship in my opinion.
Hard to value any player atm. Some clubs lack decent money to buy (like us) and so won't pay over the odds. Other clubs, (Bournemouth, Swindon, Creepy) are happy to slash the cash on anyone they fancy. If Tubbs, who also hasn't proved himself above League Two, is worth 800k, Eunan should be around the same, maybe a bit less simply because he is not a prolific goalscorer. I'm not saying that Eunan is worth that amount, but stranger things have happened. If a few 'big spenders' wade into negotiations in the summer hopefully we can play them off against eachother to get a decent fee and a good sell-on clause.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by Plymouth Gull » 06 Feb 2012, 20:19

Would say O'Kane looks a top L1 player at the minute, with potential - I don't think he'd walk into a Championship team right now, personally. In my mind though, baring in mind the amount of money being thrown around by clubs then O'Kane is worth half a million. He has the potential to be a top player in the Championship in my opinion.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by ferrarilover » 06 Feb 2012, 18:11

Eunan, for me, is a much better player than Bodin. Billy looks like a good L2 player, Eunan looks like an average Championship player and that's the difference in price.
I know he divides opinion and I'm a mug for using him as a comparative, but on his day, Danny is as good as Bodin, yet he's nowhere near as good as Eunan.
That, Frev, is why Eunan is worth £300,000 (not half a million, not yet) and Bodin isn't. Allied to the points Royal pointed out about the practicalities of a shorter contract and what not in the case of Bodin.

Matt.

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by Dave » 06 Feb 2012, 14:36

Forever sneaks off , and slowly shuts door behind him, appear to have got away with it this time :-D

Re: Giving up on Bodin

by Father Jack » 06 Feb 2012, 14:23

forevertufc wrote: No worries, just trying expand a bit on what I had written before, (forever expanded on his own opinion, oh my god I really should not do that, I nervously await the response of Fletch/Father Jack,D-V-N or what ever username he goes under these days ) :lol:
Same name on here as well as the TFF. Only need the one.

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