Torquay United Fans Forum

Many managers have blips in their career, I believe that Cambridge was one of them for Martin Ling, in the same way that I believe that BR was one for Paul Buckle.

It does not make them bad managers, as there is no way that you can really judge any manager's ability based on two clubs with very different expectations and fortunes. We are the test for Ling, like Buckle's next club will be the real test of him. Ling is beginning to prove he is a good manager, it's as simple as that.

Cheers oxgull, best of luck to you guys as well.

Torquay are always a club I've liked, and the fans I spoke with after the play-off final were a credit to your fine club.

Well I am only going on what I was told and that was by a former workmate who lives in Huntingdon and is a CUFC fan. He wasn't very complimentary about ML either but stated that things changed after ML took up the post. I seem to remember Cambridge getting a pasting off of Histon and my mate throwing a right wobbly the following morning poor fella. Not sure if ML was in charge to be honest. I think ML would admit he failed in his time with you and most of us feared the worst when he got the job at Plainmoor but he has done great things so far hence this thread. If we had been in the bottom four then this would be saying something else. Anyway it's about time you guys got back into the league again so best of luck for the rest of the season.

oxgull wrote:when you look through the bad times he endured at Cambridge and the fact that he had no support and had his budgets cut then it was obvious that he really was on a hiding to nothing there.

100% incorrect, but don't let the truth get in the way.

His budget here last season was probably bigger than yours is this season, but the stupid cockney fool decided to spunk most of it it on a a few overpaid and very poor players.

Sadly we're still lumbered with a couple of his duff signings, but thankfully have managed to shift the rest.

Good luck to you as a club for the rest of the season, but I will never be able to wish that particular individual any luck for the rest of his career, as we're still paying the price now for his disastrous regime.

forevertufc wrote:The reason I think is an increase in the standard of professionalism, players are fitter and playing at a higher level a lot longer than theyw ere 25 years ago, back in the 80's once a player got 34 ish they would drop down a few league's, where as now they are playing at the top level right throught to retirement, so yes the standard has dropped.

For exactly the reasons you mention, I think the quality has improved; players in the top divisions are playing longer, meaning that young talented kids don't have anywhere to play (foreign players in upper echelons also has a bearing on this). It seems that nearly every player we see has been on the books of a Prem or Champ team at some point, but have had to drop down the pyramid to get a game. I'm convinced that the quality of football in League 2 is higher than it used to be; for a start, you don't see as many of a huge clogging teams as used to be the norm (like Stevenage last year). The fact that the pitches are better has most likely meant that teams are better able to play 'better' football, but I don't buy the argument that teams have worsened because people like Giggs are still playing - also the dropping-down-the-leagues doesn't happend as much simply because top players are multi-millionaires by the time they're 25. If Chris Waddle was playing in todays game he'd have been on at least £50k a week for the past 7 years and simply wouldn't need to amble around Plainmoor taking the occasional corner.

Come on matt, you can't use the F.A cup as a marker as to the difference in standard between every league, Crawley are a prime example of that, they have beaten Derby, Bristol City and a host of league 1 clubs over the last two season's in the cup, right now you would not rush to money on them getting promoted out of league 2 this season.

Think you only have to look at the number of teams promoted to league 1 that do not stay there beyond 1 or 2 seasons, and the number of teams that come down, who achieve promotion back to league 1 in the same period to tell us all there is a gulf between the two divisions.

I also think Gashead79 has a point, and why I say that, I often think back to the Cyril Knowles team of 87/88, I think of the quailty of that team and the consistant standard of football they played week in and out, that team missed out on automatic promotion by 1 point and lost in the play-off final to Swansea in the days before they were played at Wembley.

The point is, if that team had entered league 2 this season, there is little doubt in my mind, they would have been crowned league 2 champions before the shops had sold out of easter egg's, yet they were not good enough for promotion that season.

The reason I think is an increase in the standard of professionalism, players are fitter and playing at a higher level a lot longer than theyw ere 25 years ago, back in the 80's once a player got 34 ish they would drop down a few league's, where as now they are playing at the top level right throught to retirement, so yes the standard has dropped.

Matt good post but we got beat by Sheffield Utd mate not Wednesday. I work in Bristol everyday but live in Devon and it makes me chuckle that a small seaside TOWN can take 4 points off a city the size of Bristol. We didn't play as well as we could have Saturday but we still should have been 3 up by halftime if Howe could have finished and Danny not wait until the 11th hour to take a shot. However a point is better than nothing and the league doesn't lie we are better than Rovers by some distance and just look at the money they have spent trying to win or even get into the playoffs and won't get either come the end of season.
Shaun

You Rovers fans have such a stick up your arse about League bloody 1. I've got a reality check for you lads, the majority of L1 is not any better than the majority of L2, an if the two were merged into some big single division, a lot of the L2 sides would finish above the L1 teams. We walked past Chesterfield in the Cup and it took an own goal and a horrific error for Wednesday to beat us. The filth have scored even fewer goals than Northampton and its hardly like Leyton Orient are setting the world alight.
You weren't good enough for what is basically L2+1, and you're not really good enough for L2 proper, quit your whinging and face the fact that as much as you might not like it, Bristol Useless are not a big/good/impressive club, you're a very ordinary L2/L1 club and it is there you shall stay. There are probably 50,000 clubs below you and 70 above you, quit striving for something which is little but bragging rights and embrace the fact that, in the grand scheme of things, you're doing alright.

Matt.

League 2 is actually quite a close league, and has been for several years. When you look at the Premiership, a bad run might drop you down a few spaces, whereas a bad run down here could put you from a play-off spot to staring the relegation spots quite quickly.

Every team can beat every other team, on their day. It doesn't mean the League is generally poor. What makes the difference between a top team and a Conference bound one, is consistancy. Like we are doing, consistantly picking up 1-0 wins using solid defending and a bit of counter-attacking football. Those at the bottom tend to try and change around tactics for every game, which is why they get beaten. We play pretty much the same set up, every game, and it works.

As for expecting a defeat, Saturday's game was effectively a derby, not because of Geography but because of how closely linked the two clubs have been in recent times. You had ex-Torquay players who wanted to get one over on our club, we have players who played with those players last season, and will want to get one over on them. Realistically, I think it had a draw or a one goal win written all over it.

You rarely see free flowing football in League 2. I think team spirit and organisation goes a long way to success and your comeback on Saturday proved you have that. I think you have as good a chance of going up as anyone, it's only really Swindon who look certain to go up. I'd love to see you get promotion as you're a great club with excellent fans. Was a top weekend!

Gashead1979 wrote:Sorry guys, but the likes of yourselves, Cheltenham and Southend just go to show how shocking this league is.

What that makes us I shudder to think.

To be honest Gashead has a point. You only have to look at Argyle and there trouble and how awful they have been but are still with a chance of staying up. Also another example is Vale with off the feild troubles are still fighting for the playoffs. You have to look at Stevenage tho, not much has changed since they left the league and look where they are!

stevegull wrote: Care to elaborate on your reasoning gashead, before you inevitably get shouted down?

Not really, just the standard in this league hasnt really been up to much, even Swindon and Crawley who played us fairly recently. Shrews look a decent footballing side but other than that...

I was expecting a defeat saturday after getting beat by the bottom team in the week, but after being 2-0 up a draw felt like we lost.

Good luck with the rest of the season, much rather TUFC went up that some of the other clubs near the top.

Gashead1979 wrote:Sorry guys, but the likes of yourselves, Cheltenham and Southend just go to show how shocking this league is.

What that makes us I shudder to think.

Care to elaborate on your reasoning gashead, before you inevitably get shouted down?

Sorry guys, but the likes of yourselves, Cheltenham and Southend just go to show how shocking this league is.

What that makes us I shudder to think.

That's the thing about Martin Ling; his ability to get the best out of individual players and enable them to achieve their potential, and to blend together as a team so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. And not only the players, but the backroom team around him, all pulling in the same direction. Nothing lasts forever, but right now it's great to see. The new Mr. Motivator..!

It's what Paul Buckle, sadly for him and for Bristol Rovers, was seemingly unable to achieve at the Memorial Ground with his own management style. Whatever the baggage and player problems Buckle inherited from their previous season, you can imagine Ling, had he been there, resolving them more easily. On the other hand, another manager might have had more success at Cambridge than Ling had, given the same circumstances. And Buckle, older and wiser, may have great success at his next club. Such is football..