Torquay United Fans Forum

Budleigh,

No because the downside of the gamble is too big - even if theoretically 9 out of 10 managers could have got us promoted from the conference, a 1 in 10 risk is too big.

However I'm glad he has now gone as I think he is wasteful and our club cannot afford that.

I do hope in a few years, his personality and manner of departure are forgotten and that he is simply seen as the manager at the time the club pulled back from the brink.

A lot of comments regarding Buckle's personality but in terms of that being the key difference between the performance between Buckle and Ling I don't agree.

Buckle is clearly single-minded looking from the outside he appears arrogant and aloof. This undoubtedly makes it difficult for fans to warm to. However this is hardly unique - look at the way Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho are, the way they rarely criticise the players and make excuses. While at the time the treatment of Woods, Hargreaves, Raynor etc appeared harsh, in hindsight I think he probably got most of those decisions correct (probably the same with Campbell) - its quite simple no one is bigger at the club than him and when they reacted in the wrong way to decisions he made, he wanted them out as quickly as possible. Compare with how someone like Nicholson when out of favour clearly got his head down and forced his way back into contention and is a better player for it. I can't really remember Buckle being accused of having favourites - if players didn't perform they were out of favour and out of the side. In some cases more patience was required - maybe if Kee had been given a longer chance earlier we would have seen what Burton were seeing, by the time Ling came in I think it was too late for Kee and Torquay. Compare with Ling and we have already had the Saah situation where he probably should have been dropped for Ellis (although to be fair he was improving before he was injured).
Generally team spirit at the club during his time was very good - I doubt Buckle really fostered that, but by not standing for individual player's egos, clearly as a group they become strong - indeed he may have been the common enemy. Clearly this is a problem at Bristol Rovers at the moment because he cannot build the team spirit quickly (as opposed to Ling) but in this aspect this is where I think Buckle should be given the time.

The difference for me is football wise - I don't believe Buckle will make a good manager. Player wise we went through far too many players during his time here and I think he was lucky with the budget he got and the flexibility from the board. Its partly because he falls out with players but also he takes a scatter gun approach with recruitment. Last season our playoff drive was driven by Stanley, Robinson and Tomlin, with Oastler, Murray, Hemmings, Rose and I'm sure a few more I've missed added in. It was ok in the short term and the loan system is there to be used but look at the squad of players that were ours at the end of the season - how would he have managed if we had been promoted and he stayed. Look at BRFC - he has brought in 19 players and is already talking about more. Its an unsustainable way of managing. Make the comparison to Ling and it is completely different - his recruitment in the summer was excellent bringing a small number of key players in and giving players a chance - Stevens, Lathrope. We have 2 players on loan, 1 to replace a late player sale (and clearly with a view to a permanent move) and the other just a cover player. With Buckle every year he needed to make significant changes to the squad where as Ling is clearly look to slowly build a squad.

Tactically, Buckle is again and again found wanting - there were always frequent chopping and changing for no apparent reason (Exeter in the playoffs anyone? Crawley in the cup), then sticking with unsuccessful formulas (Benyon as lone front man), playing players frequently out of position (Kee, Mansell, Oastler) and bizarre substitutions. Compare to Ling - we went through a difficult spell playing 4-4-2 and he successfully changed it to a 4-5-1/4-4-3 which makes the most of our small squad, with players playing in the best position for them (O Kane, Lathrope). Substitutions are made sparingly and generally make sense.

Good managers can be unsuccessful and bad managers can be successful, luck and circumstances play a huge part. Personally I believe Ling is a good manager manager and will do well for Torquay. I believe the jury remains very much out on whether Buckle will prove to be a good manager.

Great half, good pressure from back to front and we look dangerous on the break. Could have been 2-0.

I imagine Chris McPhee will come into the O'Kane role so we don't have to change shape - its in this position he got his goals in the conference for Kidderminster.

royalgull wrote:No one's money has gone up yet the cost for everything seems to be escalating beyond control, football needs to get it's house in order...quickly and live in the real world like everyone else has to. League 2 Football and a terrace as well should be an absolute maximum of about £12/13.

That would be a 25% drop in prices which requires a 33% increase in attendances to break even. Do you think that is likely? Should the club do it even if results in an overall drop in income for the club?

Not a bad draw - 8,000 at Sheff Utd yesterday in the 1st round against Oxford. Possibly 10,000 in the second round means there will be reasonable gate receipts coming our way. Possibility of being televised as well I would have thought.

Nickgull - you should have a PM.

No more questions for CP Gull m'lord.

The defence calls for acquittal of mr ling

Ferrari - I agree with your list of teams we should better. Add in vale, southend and crewe who are probably on a par with us, Rotherham who finished in free fall and have lost Taylor and gillingham who have just lost birchall for 6 months.

If Howe fires, o'kane shows he can influence week in week out and macklin finds his feet I think playoffs are more than possible.

Fonda,

I guess if we had signed a player for half the wages of Howe we could be in a position to take another striker. Personally I'm glad we signed Howe. We're always going to have to make comprises.

As for a striker on loan - now is not really the time to dig into the loan market unless there is a high qualilty young player available from a top club - someone like NIcky Ajose at Bury last year. However these are few and far between especially for our club with it not being ideally located.
Other than that squads are still being formed, players recruited and also trying to be offloaded. Once the transfer window is shut, managers will have an idea of who their core squad is, who they couldn't offload and who no longer fits into their squad. There will then be a good base of available players to dip into - if our finances allows.

Superb, I really believe we now have a side that can do as well as last season. Excellent keeper, solid defence and competitive midfield that has a fair bit of versatility. The key now will be whether the front line fulfil their potential.

Last year we relied heavily on loans to supplement the side - this year we can use the loan system sparingly and hopefully find that extra spark if needed.

Happy with this signing - very similar to the Rendell signing 2 years ago and I bet if I look back to the threads the comments would be the same. Despite a nomadic few years his scoring record in league 2 is pretty good and hes not been playing for world beating sides. Spells in league 1 have both been for struggling clubs.
Settling down permanently with us should help him and if he can chip in with 10 to 15 goals a season plus lead the line like Rendell did I'll be happy.

Gulliball - I agree with you. I seem to recall Northampton spent some significant money a few years ago signing a number of players from mid and lower level Scottish Premier league teams and it didn't get them too far.

Interesting to see Northampton have signed Nick McKoy. He looked terrible on loan for us in our relegation season but I guess that was a tough period for any young loan player to join a team. He played 30 games for Kettering last year scoring 3 goals.

While the last few weeks have been disappointing with the loss of several key players and replacements signings have been solid but not spectacular I don't think there is any reason to panic.

We still seem to have a solid defensive unit (even if Robbo does go) and have signed and excellent keeper. With Mansell, Lathrope, Oastler and O'Kane we have the basis for a midfield unit that can compete at this level. Kee certainly has enough to be a first choice striker and Mcphee is returning to us as a more established and versatile player - 17 goals from a deep lying role is pretty decent even if it was a division below. Who knows even Macklin might surprise us with a run of games.

We also now have some free budget and seemingly a small amount of cash that could be used to bring in a quality additional.

However if we look back to last season we had Stanley, Robinson, Tomlin and Oastler who all made substantial contributions and arrived through the season via the loan market. Pringle and Gilligan also looked decent players in their short spells at the club.

The loan market doesn't really get moving until the start of the season when teams have more or less completed their squads and have young players and contracted players who have become surplus to requirements. 2 or 3 good loan signings in the right positions and added to the reasonable base we already have and all of sudden we could end up with a pretty decent team again.

So I'm certainly not panicking at the moment