Torquay United Fans Forum

Unfortunately, I think a degree of realism is called for.

Torquay United have historically been a Football League club for a long time, but the support level isn't really there to sustain an EFL club without additional funding. Can't remember the last time Torquay got close to an average of 3000 fans at games in a season. A lot of EFL clubs' money comes from TV revenue or Premier League solidarity payments, but the problem with having dropped out of the league years ago is that the club no longer receive either. Two bigger -league - clubs on either side. So Torquay are looking for players not good enough to play for Exeter and probably not good enough to play for Yeovil either, given that most of them have to drive through Somerset to get to Devon and I get the impression that YTFC are prepared to pay more money.

I can't berate Clark Osborn for not being willing to plough a fortune in to the club as I don't see anyone else prepared to do it either. He is reportedly investing sufficient money to keep the team professional, and IF he is doing that without saddling the club with debt, then he has my gratitude.

If we're honest, a lot of the current dissatisfaction comes from the fact that as fans we think of TUFC as being "too big" for the National League South. I do feel the club should be doing better than it is, as most clubs in the National League South do not have the resources of Torquay United, but I don't see that the club's inability to do so is the fault of the owner. It's all very well just knee-jerk firing the manager, but unless you can get someone else better in you've accomplished nothing.

Given how starved the fans have been of information from the owner, it would have been nice to ask some more pertinent questions.

Gary Johnson is being described as a man who can take Torquay in to the football league, however they currently sit 11 points behind the leaders in a division of mostly part time teams. Without meaning any disrespect to them, it is worrying that a team like Aveley can be as good if not better than Torquay are given the presumed financial backing of Torquay as a full time club. It would be nice to know what the Owner feels is going wrong - or has he been too busy to take in the team's results and where Torquay are in the table?

toastkid wrote: ↑10 Nov 2023, 11:05 The intent of this thread was to get some positive views.

If you are frustrated, negative, I understand why, but I choose not to be the same.
...


I will stand by the manager and the team. I will cheer the lads on, rather than throw shit at them.

If you want to be negative that’s up to you.

I’d rather you wouldn’t call me pathetic when I try to see things positively. I’m not an idiot, I can see what’s happening, but I’ll continue to be positive. You won’t change that.

And so, I back Gary, Aaron and the team.

We’ll win Saturday.
COYY!

I largely agree and frankly a very refreshing post. Not so sure about winning Saturday, but we'll see!

The team should definitely be doing better than it is and I can understand the frustration that people feel. But are players going to play better if someone yells and swears at them?

There seems to be an assumption in football that changing the manager will magically fix all the problems and things will miraculously improve. I'm not convinced it will, particularly in this case. Gary Johnson is a proven National League commodity - he has won the league twice - with Yeovil in 2003 and with Cheltenham in 2016. He of course finished 2nd with Torquay only two seasons ago and was a penalty shoot-out away from a 3rd promotion from this league. I do not understand who people think is actually better qualified or more likely to be successful than Gary Johnson.

This season has not been good, by any measure, but I do not know what limits GJ is working with. I can't imagine for one moment he has a competitive budget and whether people like to admit it or not, tempting people to come to Torquay is not easy because of the location. Another factor is the presence of Yeovil in the same division as players travelling to the South West have to pass Yeovil to get to Torquay. Are Torquay offering better wages, better facilities than Yeovil to tempt players to go those literal extra miles? I can't see anything improving with a change in the dugout.

The question that should be asked is whether replacing the manager is likely to lead to an improvement in fortunes. Gary Johnson has already won the National League twice - I don't think he's suddenly forgotten how to manage! Maybe the budget is the problem or the location of the club in terms of attracting players, in which case replacing the manager might not accomplish anything. Clearly results aren't good at the moment, but I'm not sure changing the manager will solve anything.

Fair point.

I think it's a little premature to be all doom and gloom after one game, no matter how bad it was. Mind you, had we won 4-0 I'm sure some would already be hailing the team as Champions...

I don't see any harm in people giving their honest opinion about the game - if people think it was bad it's ok to say so. Doesn't mean they're not backing the management and players, just means they had an off day in the writer's opinion.

The National League is not a financially viable league. The TV revenues and sponsorship moneys are in no way comparable to FL levels and yet most of the clubs are full time. I don't see how clubs can operate on a full time basis without having either someone to bank roll them or with a very large support for this level: 3500 plus, preferably more. Phillips has basically said that Plainmoor is only viable at this level with someone to fund the team, which Torquay don't have.

In the last ten years Canvey Island, Scarborough, Rushden & Diamonds, Halifax Town, Salisbury City, Chester City, Darlington and Hereford United have all either gone bust or been relegated multiple divisions (voluntarily or at the insistence of the FA) as they couldn't operate effectively at this level. That's a LOT of teams for a league this small. What is needed is for the member clubs to come together and apply some common sense such as a salary cap restricting the size of a clubs' wage budget to a percentage of their turnover, as they do in League Two. Unfortunately, common sense seems to be absent and there are too many clubs willing to spend well beyond their means to "chase the dream", so I can't see it happening. In the meantime, teams at this level will continue to overpay players who, in the main, are not actually very good to "keep up with the Joneses".

Got to admit I will be quite relieved if this takeover falls through. If,as has been reported,Gaming International will not take over the club unless they can buy the freehold of Plainmoor (to sell/develop when they make a new ground) that suggests to me that their prime motivation is to make a profit on a land deal, not the best interests of Torquay United FC. I'd rather retain the current ownership, who are at least well-intentioned, rather than leap in to the unknown with this consortium.

Dave_Pougher wrote:Yep just remembered why I don't post on here as often.

Such a shame this forum has become a place where reasonable debate isn't possible.

Completely agree. Unfortunately some people are incapable of expressing an opinion without resorting to abuse.

Portugull is spot on, it is the simple things that are not being fixed. The whole point of training should be to work on these points. Of course with a young and inexperienced squad it will not be perfect, but it should be possible to see gradual improvement.

""From now on it's just positive, you're not going to hear any excuses from me ever.
"You're not going to hear me talk about a budget, ever. You're not going to hear me moaning about the weather or the referee or any of that stuff.
"It's a no-excuse environment here and it is all about getting the players doing what they're going to do well, that really is all I'm bothered about."

From KN today. I like this guy already!

Seeing as the guy is now in post, let's at least give him a chance shall we?

The last manager was a former Conference winner, and that didn't work out to well. I did make the point when Cox was appointed that he had not worked at this level with a small budget and was ridiculed for it, by those who apparently know better.

This season is going to be a struggle whoever is in post. Whether or not Torquay United stay up is not as important as ensuring the club survive. If we ensure we live within our means, then the club will survive. Not exciting, not what everyone wants to hear but a lot better than the club going bust and having to restart in some mickey mouse league.

This statement from Paul does explain why he delayed issuing it. Time for both parties to move on now. I'm sure Paul will find something in football soon and hopefully Torquay can appoint someone who has a clue after last weekend's fiasco.

If money is so tight, still don't understand why they don't bring Chris Hargreaves back, seeing as they're paying him anyway!

Whether you are a fan of the current regime or not, I think we can agree that their communications need considerable improvement.

I never saw the point of bringing in Cox anyway - nothing against the man, he's a good manager, just didn't see the point of paying for two managers. "We couldn't afford to pay Chris, but we can afford to pay Chris and Paul" doesn't make any sense and any fool can see that.

What little news that does come out of the club from the current regime does not instill confidence. I can't help wondering if, however well intentioned they are, if the current administration are in way over their heads.