Torquay United Fans Forum

Dean Edwards was acting in an act of his own income preservation and conned a group of well-meaning supporters into 'saving' something the 'blessed Bristow' had tired of...

At least half of them bailed out on receiving the due diligence report and half of the remaining rump soon quit having fallen out amongst themselves under the pressure. People (maybe rightly) claim that had they not 'stepped in' the Club would have been lost. Well that would have been Bristow's responsibility as she was the owner and employer of the staff.

Whatever happens to the Club at whatever time is ALWAYS the responsibility of the owner of the time; whether it had been Mike Bateson, the Chris Roberts Consortium, the Alex Rowe led board using the decidedly unbalanced financial underpinning of the Bristow family; the Dave Phillips led board or Clarke Osborne using the auspices of his business empire.

Surely everybody can appreciate that!

It's not a joke; it's a revenue stream...

No-one's asking you to call it anything; it's what the club accrue from it that is important.

Spot on there on all counts MellowYellow...

Even when I was at the Club back in the mid-seventies and early eighties, the brief was to make the business sustainable to take it away from benevolence. With the very limited facilities (far less than what is there now) a thriving lottery, car boot sales, antique markets, mid-week markets, target golf, firework displays, and it's a knockout were held at the ground. The social club was energetically managed to trawl as much revenue from the immediate neighbourhood as possible and the previously loss making tiny club shop and match day programme relentlessly marketed for all the extra revenue that could be extracted and made not only sustainable but profit making in their own right.

Do you know United were one of the very first two English clubs (Aston Villa being the other) to take fledgling steps with an obscure (in this country) American footwear company called Nike? That's true and it was made possible through the involvement of Bruce Rioch who brought the 'connection' with him when he first arrived from the company's home town of Seattle. In it's beginnings, Nike had been an American franchise for selling the goods of the Japanese sports footwear company Onitsuka Tiger and the players got free pairs of boots to wear which they generally hated the feel of. So the Nike 'swoosh' was painted over the existing but blacked out Adidas and Puma markings on their own personal footwear and everyone was happy ~ where there's a will there's a way!

Today you'd find it hard to prise most young players away from Nike.

The reason I threw that story in is because if at first you don't succeed you have to persevere and find a way in order to fulfil the potential of a business plan you know will work

Had a (then) allowance of a new artificial pitch been anything like a certainty; one would have gone down allowing summer long use of the ground as a skateboard park and childrens' playground with Ladbroke Leisure ready and waiting to underwrite the installation, set-up and running costs.

It is all so much better if there are facilities to generate daily income from six-a-side football, conferences, hotel use, and concerts; and the town needs to be positive and pro-active on that score before ever the football club is!

The Football Association were reactionary then and not yet ready for artificial pitches, the council were staid and fuddy duddy and the community were generally 'NIMBY' and that was nearly fifty years ago and no progress of any significance has been made at Plainmoor or within the town since. You wouldn't believe the degree of ignorance of what was even within their property as landlords of the ground shown by the councillors of the time when we showed them around the ground; the amount of hostility and obstruction within the local community and the general attitude of disdain towards the Club from those who should have realised they too could be stakeholders in a positive venture.

To achieve such things you need to win the mental battle first; we never did ~ only began the physical battle ~ and whilst it was being waged we provided a good income stream for the directors so they could lessen their personal levels of benevolence towards the business. To think that almost half a century later the same battle has still to be won!

That would still be a capital venture though wouldn't it...

Venture capital funds are invested in early-stage companies in exchange for equity, this is exactly what Osborne did when he acquired the Club.

Venture capitalists take on the risk of financing risky start-ups in the hopes that some of the firms they support will become successful. Because startups face high uncertainty, such investment do have high rates of failure and so are mainly initiated where such losses can be off-set against the tax liable on other businesses within the ownership.

So many professional football clubs exist on this premis.

brooker wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 22:25There doesn't seem to be a travel guide about, does anyone know the score with Parking / Away fans in the clubhouse etc?

http://thelondonlabia.proboards.com/thr ... ay-october

dawlishmatt wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 19:44When CO took control of TUFC, he openly admitted that he knew nothing about football and so we all knew his motive for buying the club was not football related.

Yes he acquired Torquay United; no he did not and didn't have to buy it!

He didn't have to; it was surrendered to him because those who had utilised his capital had failed to find another buyer to get them off the hook and they lost their co-lateral.

Those who lost that co-lateral did so because they were under capitalised having been taken for a ride by Dean Edwards. They did not enter the fray with making money in mind although they might legitimately be taken to task in their asking terms (not price) for relinquishing control.

Clarke Osborne is neither a well meaning fool like Thea Bristow or any other who puts good money after bad and loses it. Thea Bristow was taken for a ride until those with her own personal interests at heart rather than those of Torquay United steered her away from being relieved of any more of her family inheritance.

Even so; I believe the manner in which Mrs Bristow bailed out was irresponsible because at the end of the day it was her company and she was employing her employees.

A self sufficient and sustainable football club can exist within a development opportunity such as Osborne is seeking but the major fly in the ointment is (1) he has never successfully pulled anything like this off in his life and (2) the dreadfully conservative (with a small c) and un-progressive local community who exist within a declining and rapidly increasingly degenerating environment.

Torquay has declined shamefully during my lifetime and quite frankly is an embarrassment to survey now. Living in the past and to my way of thinking a million miles from being brave enough to give the go ahead to Osborne's vision...and we all know what that will inevitably lead to don't we!

I think truth be told; his role had evolved to not only exclude anything to do with the playing side of the game but also to take on the extra admin made necessary through the departure of the Club secretary and he has procured something else in that field that he wishes to work in.

OllieGull wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 17:48I agree with the sentiment that the need to leave Plainmoor isn't massive at the moment. That being said, I do also think it is wrong to instantly shoot down any stadium plan - I think it has been well documented within the Torquay fanbase of CO's inability to deliver on promises before and is something that should definitely make us wary. However, the plans to create a new stadium that could raise additional revenue would definitely be a benefit imo, the question would be making sure they actually happen and as SeniorDingDong says above, everything should be watertight to prevent a field with jumpers for goalposts being put in place with us being booted out of Plainmoor.

Everything does need to be watertight but remember that although this is a club with security of tenure to a publicly owned body it is not a solvent or even remotely self-sufficient business...

Whilst we cannot allow the local custodians (the Council) of that security to relinquish it we cannot either contemplate the club being anything but self-sufficient as quickly as possible and that is the dilemma.

Eyes were taken off the ball amidst the euphoria of the regime that took over from Mike Bateson once he had clawed the Club back from the Chris Roberts debacle. But there was nowhere near a sustainable business ethos and it was hugely reliant on benevolence from a far from business savvy benefactor. I would go as far as to say that was a fraudulent abuse of generosity by a group of local businessmen who showd little or no inclination to get down to business and make he club viable.

This ultimately lead to it being where it is today ~ in the hands of a developer who called in the colateral put up when his capital injection couldn't be repaid. Now he has to engineer a return on that 'investment' and it will be very hard to achieve if the club remains at Plainmoor.

His 'plan B' must be to make it as viable a proposition as can be so that it can be unloaded as a capital venture should he decide his 'plan A' as part of a larger development is not going to come to fruition.

These are the responsibilities you will be taking on Paigntonfan if you manage to get elected.

oldcommsboy is right; Osborne needs to make the club viable as he can then offload it as a capital venture attractive enough for anyone willing to take it off his hands if he does not realise the development project he envisages.

brooker wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 14:18 I'm not questioning anybody elses opinion here, merely stating that the Geoff I knew was a lovely, sensitive and hard working guy who was extremely well regarded in youth football at his previous clubs (Yeovil and Peterborough), and who did several young TUFC players justice by finding them moves to bigger clubs.

Hold on a minute; Geoff Harrop never worked for Peterborough United...

I know his background; he was a player for Colchester United his local professional club and then went to play in Cyprus. He returned to head up youth development for Colchester and whilst there ~ being hugely reliant on talent from north and east London rather than local ~ was instrumental in persuading a particular player to take his football more seriously (along with his brother Kazeng Lua-Lu and cousin Tresor Kandol) and knuckle down to becoming a professional footballer. That player was Lomana Lua-Lua and an old acquaintance of mine called Vic Nichols workd with him on that project. Vic is now a veteran director of football at Haringey Borough and still trawling the local football scene for raw talent like the Lua-Luas. Yannick Bolasie is another member of that Congolese family. Not without success either; and if you tune in to the Haringey Borough v AFC Wimbledon live game in a couple of weeks time you'll see some of the end product of that.

Harrop then went to Northampton Town to head up their youth dept before coming to Torquay United. That is his background and he is very much a youth development man.

Young players trying to make their way in the game need people like Geoff and Vic; and people like them need young players...I guess that will be the field of expertise Geoff Harrop will move on to once again if he wants to remain in professional football.

What they're saying about us...
http://www.wealdstonefc.co.uk/forum/ind ... 8bee6048a7

"we never looked like hurting Torquay who, to my mind, are the best-ever NLS side we've seen at the Vale: Big, strong, well organised and ruthless. They also had three, even four men shackling Shomotun which cost us 50% of our attacking threat."

You better believe it; your side were annihilated and lucky to get away with only three goals in their net!

"A couple of points about the stewarding/ segregation at yesterday's game. Although this was a segregated game, it was noticeable that several Torquay fans were allowed in the bar..there was also stewards stationed inside and yes I know there was no trouble but it did seem a bit odd that they were allowed in in the first place.

I saw that all the stewards were given a pre-match briefing in the 1966 stand but obviously no mention was made to eject/ escort to the correct area Torquay fans who had chosen to enter the ground via the home turnstiles. Several were seen celebrating the first goal in our areas yet no attempt by the stewards was made to move them.
Why?
They should have been ejected and forced to pay at the away turnstiles if they wanted to continue watching....that would have helped pay for all the extra stewards who had nothing to do.
There was even one of their fans who was in a bright mustard hoodie who stood out like sore thumb.

Both sets of fans were allowed to exit the ground at the end of the game at the same time rather than keeping the away fans in for 5 minutes allowing the home fans to disburse."

What utter bollocks; mean minded, petty and typically tin pot from a tin pot club...

What was the feckin' point of the segregation anyway? What on earth were they doing denying themselves revenue by 'banning us from their social club? They obviously haven't got a pot to piss in; a gust of wind would blow their house down and it's no wonder with that barn pot sense of business.

Yes I was one of those in their precious club house. Just walked up to the door, said g'dday to the steward and straight past the desk looking for a bit of cash for a non member entry. Had a pint of poor tasting beer in a plastic pot served by a slow thinking spotty youth, watched a bit of telly because they had de-commissioned the table football which my son was looking forward to playing on (I guess because table football requires two opponents sharing a table they decided to ban that too for the day)

What's the world coming to when a living in the past bunch of dinosaurs decide to act like that? They didn't stop our faux directors from going into their boardroom, they didn't stop Gary Johnson bringing his family in and why should they? So why did the obnoxious pricks behave like that?

Charmingly, even Hennessys down at Ruislip Manor were not allowing away fans in either; what a miserable and anti-social dump Ruislip is. At least the homage to the National Front bar along the road from Hennessys has closed and gone now.

I wanted to make my point on the Stone's net forum but their membership 'won't accept my email address' whatever that means.

I expect Wealdstone will expect to be, and be made welcome when they come to Plainmoor; and so the miserable **** should be. I hope they appreciate being in a proper bona fide football stadium as opposed to their rubbish tip favela made of tin, shipping containers and plastic barriers nicked from the local road works. Have we ever played at such a dump with poor sight lines and dangerous barely visible steps? I guess the ground got it's safety certificate when it was empty...fill it out with a few hundred fans and you plunge down those dangerous steps.

And another thing...the next time you get a professional side down there cut the bloody grass!

"Blue & yellow? You can't come in here mate"

It's ten months since the passing of a United legend
what have the Club done about it?

The news today of the naming of the new grandstand at Exeter City after Adam Stansfield prompts me to ask ~ 'what's happening to the general desire to name a Plainmoor stand after Ian Twitchin?

Don't fob him off with naming a suite after him as I was told was the offer from the Club; nothing less than a stand for the local lad who gave his all for them, day in, day out for so many years and without ever being that well paid for it!

I get the feeling that his family have been fended off with platitudes over this, and was of the impression that the matter was left in the hands of less than senior Tim Herbert who has now left the scene anyway. I think it's time to get a groundswell of opinion going on this subject again and tell the Club that not only doing something such as naming the Popside stand after him is the least they should be doing but doing it pretty damned quick now too!

Shouldn't TUST be taking up the baton on this; the current sponsors Thatchers or the Club's 'Presidents for Life' after all what else constructive are they doing for the legacy of the Club now?

Meh!!!!

Gordon's no idiot; he's a nice little guy who had a struggle through life due to his hormone growth deficiency and (as he says) owed a great debt to Great Ormond Street Hospital and had a chance to repay that debt as he saw it.

I'd heard it all got too much for him and had been told he had gone out to Malaga(?) for a bit of respite from it all but whether that was true or not I don't know.

My ever present image of him is the day Calvin was playing on the table football in their club house and challenged him to a game seemingly totally oblivious to the fact that the guy had come dressed in full referee's kit and to go along with Calvin I steadfastly refused to bite and ignored his dress sense.

Just a lovable loon in my view and one of the characters of the non league game and (as he told me) 'you'd never get that up the Arsenal where I always wanted to be as a kid'

No you wouldn't and don't take the piss out of the guy if you see him on Saturday ~ he comes with a minder! :slap:

wivelgull wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 09:36 re: Ms Chamberlain's post. What does 'meh' mean? (I am 76).

I'm 66 and I used to hear that sound emananating from Newton Abbot livestock market when I was a kid...

Just a fading C list celeb click baiting; ommitting to admit that she got her stardom from being a female, flashing her arse and posing for Penthouse. Alright to take all the advantages of being a 'girlie' then ~ and good luck to her ~ but at the age of 51 time to realise that she never got the job with gravitas (the one that Gabby Logan got) and also that those who got the BBC gig the other night got it because they were judged best for the job. I don't think Helen's agent ever did get her any work on the BBC.

Even though we'll be playing on her doorstep on Saturday, I doubt very much you'll see her demeaning herself to go to Grosvenor Vale.