Torquay United Fans Forum

'If you do decide to vote remain be very clear. You have no right to complain you can't get a doctor's appointment or a place in primary school. In four years' time, all primary schools will be full.

You have no right to a view on the dearth of housing or the strain on the NHS. Because you sided with the people who said unchecked immigration is a positive thing for Britain.

If you are voting remain you have no right to respond to terror with sympathy; your hashtags, your sad faces and your vigils in a public square. The only thing I want to hear from you is 'I was wrong'. Because you voted with the idiots who said we are safer IN.

And if you are voting remain because you are worried about short term pain. Think about the cancer you diagnosed for this country'.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -back.html

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madgull

By the way, the EU aren't stupid, if they make it seem like countries can just break away willy-nilly and then get everything they want without being part of the EU, they're inviting the organisation to fall apart.

madgull is right on this point, as what sort of judgement would it pass on the E.U project if we were allowed to leave and then be seen to be thriving ?

We have to accept that there will be some very powerful forces desperate to do what they can to make us fail. Whether that will involve other Central Banks trying to undermine sterling, or the U.S or the E.U doing what they can to harm British trade, we have to prepared for that and accept it might well happen.

Personally I believe that in the medium term Europe is an economic basket case, with so much debt piled up that they'll not be the market we should be pinning our hopes on anyway. Add in the social and cultural problems that are looming and the chance to jump into the current lifeboat and get ourselves out is far too good to miss.

Britain's economy is being sustained by artificially suppressed interest rates, and a huge glut of money printing (Quantitative Easing) so the problems we've stocked up will come crashing down on us (and also in America) before too long whether we're in the E.U or outside.

In the end trade, economic forecasts, and crystal ball gazing on who is willing to trade with who, are issues for politicians to argue over at election time. You don't call a Referendum to discuss the Balance of Payments.

Yesterday I was reading an article written by the Daily Telegraph's International Business Editor, who titled his piece: 'Brexit vote is about the supremacy of Parliament and nothing else: Why I am voting to leave the EU'

Nobody has ever been held to account for the design faults and hubris of the euro, or for the monetary and fiscal contraction that turned recession into depression, and led to levels of youth unemployment across a large arc of Europe that nobody would have thought possible or tolerable in a modern civilized society. The only people that are ever blamed are the victims.

There has been no truth and reconciliation commission for the greatest economic crime of modern times. We do not know who exactly was responsible for anything because power was exercised through a shadowy interplay of elites in Berlin, Frankfurt, Brussels, and Paris, and still is. Everything is deniable. All slips through the crack of oversight.

Nor have those in charge learned the lessons of EMU failure. The burden of adjustment still falls on South, without offsetting expansion in the North. It is a formula for deflation and hysteresis. That way lies yet another Lost Decade.

Has there ever been a proper airing of how the elected leaders of Greece and Italy were forced out of power and replaced by EU technocrats, perhaps not by coups d'etat in a strict legal sense but certainly by skulduggery?

On what authority did the European Central Bank write secret letters to the leaders of Spain and Italy in 2011 ordering detailed changes to labour and social law, and fiscal policy, holding a gun to their head on bond purchases?

What is so striking about these episodes is not that EU officials took such drastic decisions in the white heat of crisis, but that it was allowed to pass so easily.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... thing-els/


Whether the Eurocrats get their economic decisions right or wrong, the British people don't feel any part of the set up. They just see a massive bureaucracy churning out laws by the tens of thousands and we don't seem to get the opportunity to get rid of these extremely important people via the ballot box. Wasn't it Baroness Ashton who rose to the position of First Vice President of the European Commission, having never been elected to a single position in her entire life ?.

Britain is far from perfect, and we've brought on many of the problems ourselves. But I'd rather we be free to make our own mistakes, and accept the consequences of that, that be ruled by the faceless European elites who never have, and never would willingly give the British public a ballot paper with their name on.

Even if we should have to tighten our belts for a bit in order to get these European dictators off our backs for good, June 23rd will tell us how many consider that to be a bit of Economics they'll willingly accept.

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The Trust haven't been mincing their words in recent months. Hopefully we'll hear them speak out loud and clear on this issue shortly.

Isn't it funny how we seem to remember things differently. I thought Marsh looked completely uninspired under Cox's management, and the fact that he only played one full game under Cox underlined for me that Cox didn't have much faith in him either. Whereas under Nico's management we saw Marsh come alive and show us just what a good player he could be. I rather blamed Nico for managing him too well, to the extent that he'd improved Marsh so much that Dover came in with a lucrative offer to the player which young Marsh viewed as too good to turn down.

I think the Government will probably try to ride this one out, and hope that within a week the loss of steel jobs will no longer be on the front pages and there'll be other things to talk about. Even today, with a little help from Ronnie Corbett, it's slipping down the page.

To put nationalisation in football terms, it would turn the British Government into Thea Bristow, while the steel workers would play the part of Mo Camara, Dale Tonge, and Ben Harding.


forevertufc

Renationalization for me is a no brainier, 15,000 no longer paying tax, and claiming state benefits, will cost the country more than the million pounds a day the industry is losing.

The Government/Taxpayer would be forking out the high wages to keep them employed as well as picking up the million pounds a day loss. A combined outlay well in access of the State benefits the Government would have to fork out.


Forever could well be right with what he tells us about the E.U not following suit with the USA on high tariffs. If the jobs you save in steel only result in job losses in the car industry etc, you've achieved nothing, other than to favour one set of workers and their jobs over another set.

Time will tell how successful Obama's high tariffs on imported steel prove to be, but when the Bush administration did something similar back in 2002 it lead to more redundancies in steel consuming industries than the total number of employees in steel production that it was designed to benefit.

http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/blog/inte ... e?rq=steel

While I'm fully in agreement with Forever's 'Vote Leave' conclusion, I'd rather get big Government off our backs altogether, rather than just do away with the E.U layer of it.

happytorq wrote: That seems slightly disingenuous, doesn't it? The campaign on either side will probably focus on 'scare tactics'.

It's definitely true that neither side has a complete monopoly on 'scare tactics', but I think it's generally accepted that it's a ploy more suited to one side of the argument than the other.

If you just think back a short while to 2014 and the Scottish independence referendum, one side deployed 'Project Fear' which ultimately won the day,whereas the Scots Nats had to campaign by portraying the positives of an independent Scotland. Attempting to frighten people by telling them scare stories about being ruled by Westminster just wouldn't work; the Scots had been ruled by Westminster for centuries and therefore knew what it was like, and pretty much what to expect. The Government meanwhile immediately turn to scare tactics: ' You'll all lose your jobs', 'the big companies will move out of Scotland', they got the Treasury to announce that the Scots may no longer be allowed to use the £, and you start a scare story that Quaker Oats may refuse to trade with an Independent Scotland, putting porridge in jeopardy.

Just as I don't expect Nico to change a winning team for Saturday, the British Government will again pin it's hopes on 'Project Fear' and hope it will deliver a winning result for them as it did in the Scottish Referendum.

The analysts study this in detail, and their surveys will be showing where the emphasis shoud be directed. The problem for the 'Remain' side is that the option of campaigning on a positive platform of championing what a good deal Cameron got for us from his negotiations is a hopeless non starter. The few paltry concessions that Cameron extracted from the E.U have been widely ridiculed, and Remainers have already given up any idea of being able to run a positive campaign based on them. They've no option but to go big on 'Project Fear', as they've really nothing else that will work as effectively. Plus it can deliver results, particulary with female voters. The data clearly shows that even though a majority of Scottish males voted for independence, 'Project Fear' worked it's magic on the ladies sufficiently well to tip the balance in favour of keeping Scotland in the Union.

Farage, Boris & Co can attempt to scare us with tales of gangs of Romanian pickpockets, about overcrowded schools where many of the kids have little grasp of English, about needing to concrete over the country to build enough houses for the burgeoning population, about the undemocratic nature of European rule or the £50 million a day it costs us, about the lack of control over our borders, or the reams of Brussels red tape that restricts our businesses, but the electorate won't bat an eyelid because they already know it...we've been watching it develop into the current state since the 1970's. Just like the Scots Nats, the leavers have to instead paint a bright optimistic future for us....let us know that happiness can be found if we strike out independently.

The campaign tactics will be interesting , and Gullscorer will no doubt keep us appraised regarding the literature that comes through his letterbox.


One thing we can be sure of, and that's we ain't see nuthin yet. In the last month or so the full range of weaponry will be utilised, Obama will be wheeled in to advise us to vote remain, the BBC will abandon any pretext of being neutral, and the full 'shock and awe' arsenal will be unleashed upon the heads of Brexit and it's supporters

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -defeated/

I'm expecting this Referendum campaign to reveal a whole new level of dirty tricks for British politicians, as well as demonstrating the incredible opinion swaying power of the BBC. Only another 4 months, and with Gullscorer talking us through it each step of the way....it should be fun

While in theory a new stadium might be capable of holding 6000, the Safety Advisory Group will be able to knock that down to 4000 in the blink of an eye. And if they're really determined 3500.

It will be important to start as we mean to go on, and telling the SAG where to stick their advice will be an important first step.

I expect that the American company will be making their money from the new houses to be built.

The economics of the situation probably mean that there's every likelihood that this will proceed. I imagine that it goes without saying that TUST will be demanding a guarantee that there will be no attempts to foist an all seater stadium on us. Torquay fans are used to a good provision of terracing, and we must ensure we maintain that option within any new stadium plans.

Butler
Marsh
Smith
Berry
Gerring

forevertufc

And before anyone says, yes there's an old saying "pay peanuts get monkeys" however Dino Maamria appears to have got the monkeys he took over at Southport and achieved 16 points out of 18.

He's doing well at Southport isn't he. But the circumstances at the two clubs could be very different. Also, perhaps the bloke that Maaria has taken over from wasn't very good ?? Whereas Nico has followed on from 'Promotion Winner' Paul Cox. We'd be doing quite a bit better if so many good players weren't on the treatment table instead of being available to play.

'Lingy Vision' fine for some,
But others want the Ginger one,
TV Repairman Knill for hire,
That'll leave us in the mire.

The picture's worse, a massive bill,
Thanks TV Repairman Knill.
We're out of cash, your work was poor,
Our telly's bust, now there's the door.

'KEV TV' our final bet,
A local reconditioned set.
It's hardly costing us a bean,
The other choice? A big blank screen !

Although it was initially Gullscorer's opening call encouraging European bureaucrats to trample on fundamental and long cherished rights that drew opposition, there's no reason why the separate consideration regarding the commercial implications of discontinuing meat pie sales can't also be held, and be just as interesting

If Gullscorer wasn't too ill to speak for himself, he'd be quickly reminding us that it's not just the veggie food takings that can be considered in isolation.

GS's detailed background analysis of this is extensive, even down to calculating the number of vegetarians and vegans within a Gloucestershire football crowd:

Gullscorer (1st November 2015)

There was a 27% drop in the FGR gate today from the previous home game. The 1561 crowd presumably included 32 vegetarians and Vegans. One wonders how much of this drop is due to the lack of non-Vegan food and drink

To ascertain the full economic impact, we will clearly have to factor in the loss of gate money from militant meat eaters who would rather boycott their teams home games rather than watch the match with no meat pie in hand.


Perhaps the commercial pro's and con's of selling meat pies could best be illustrated with a pie chart =D


*Edit*

It seems that one pie chart may not be enough :-|


“But I didn’t give in. Now no fan says the veggie burger is worse than a meat burger. They even come up to me and thank me, and say I’ve changed their lives.”

There are some supporters, he claims, who go to watch Forest Green just for the food".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 88062.html

So now there's the extra revenue brought in from those only there for the veggie burgers ! Let's hope The Maestro is feeling better soon and can guide us back to the right path on this.