POLL - Who do you want to be manager?

[SuperNickyWroe]

i voted for another manager/asst.

i dont thing knill would relocate to the bay area if that was a pre-requisite. if he would then he would get my vote.

as for lingy - he has done well - up until this season when we got found out by a) the opposition and b) ourselves-not being able to obviously
cope with the formation when we went 1 down. and there is the relocation thing. also, with his rolling contract, im led to believe that if either side are not happy then they can cancel the contract at the end of the one year term.

i think that as i previously said on another thread, i think that mr warnock maybe interested....

[stevegull]

Stop with your Warnock chat SNW! It's talking wet to the extreme! Take that chat to the rumour mill!

What kind of extravagant salary would he require from our penniless board?

[jonnyfive]

i voted for another manager/asst.

i dont thing knill would relocate to the bay area if that was a pre-requisite. if he would then he would get my vote.

as for lingy - he has done well - up until this season when we got found out by a) the opposition and b) ourselves-not being able to obviously
cope with the formation when we went 1 down. and there is the relocation thing. also, with his rolling contract, im led to believe that if either side are not happy then they can cancel the contract at the end of the one year term.

i think that as i previously said on another thread, i think that mr warnock maybe interested....

My understanding of a rolling contract is that there IS no end of term. Isn't that the point of it; that with every day that dawns, Lingy has one year left to serve?

Never really understood the need for clubs like ours to offer managers like Martin such a financial safeguard... Barcelona weren't beating down his door, and Guardiola wasn't beating down ours. As Knill has proved, there are dozens of capable managers for hire at any given time.

(Of course, I haven't done much research on Wikipedia or the OU website, so I stand to be corrected.)

[SuperNickyWroe]

Stop with your Warnock chat SNW! It's talking wet to the extreme! Take that chat to the rumour mill!

What kind of extravagant salary would he require from our penniless board?

me talking wet steve?

thats rich coming from such a wet talker like your good self! =D

[Southampton Gull]

i voted for another manager/asst.

i dont thing knill would relocate to the bay area if that was a pre-requisite. if he would then he would get my vote.

as for lingy - he has done well - up until this season when we got found out ....

I hate it when people take this stance, we didn't get found out at all. What happened was the club had to cut back on expenditure to finance other things and the playing budget suffered as a result. It's just the reality of supporting a club like ours with its limited resources. Ling did an excellent job with what he was given. It is all about the margins, one game I can think of where we were beaten easily and one nil wins from last season became 1 nil defeats this season. With the players we lost is it any real surprise? The style of football was based on our strongest asset, an organised defence, what we lacked was creativity and scoring options, the players that can offer those cost more than we can realistically afford.

Not a dig mate, just my take on it.

[SuperNickyWroe]

all about opinions dave.

[Southampton Gull]

all about opinions dave.

Yep, and mine are much more important than yours

[SuperNickyWroe]

charming.

[supergulls]

I feel the need to clarify some points as it doesn't matter how many times facts are placed on here people either read them wrong or just decide to twist and manipulate the facts for their own agenda. Southampton gull has been one of the only posters who has any real understanding of what is going on and has been on the button with his views. Let me go over some of the issues from above to finally put them to bed

The year rolling contract; this is exactly as Southampton gull says it has no end date so whenever the board and the manager wish to part company there will always be a years compensation to pay regardless of results unless the manager has committed gross misconduct the compensation will always be payable. As we know some clubs sign managers on 3 year deals such as Cambridge united did with Martin, well this way if you wish to part ways after shall we say 6 months you still pay the manager 30 months wages. So if you look at it from the other side maybe the board thought they were being prudent by not entering into long contracts.

Bringing in players
Martin asked the board to bring in fresh players when the transfer window opened but was turned down, I have already named the players on another thread that he wanted to bring in. At the time the board thought we were safe and Martin was achieving his target set by the board which was a mid table finish, this target was set because they felt we over achieved last season and with the loss of eunan, bobby etc this would be realistic. It was felt that this project that we had begun was well underway with the improvements to the training ground and the bench and also the investment in the youth policy draining any money that would have been available for new players. But this investment was needed for the bigger picture as you cannot attract good players to the club when your training facilities resemble a farmers field and a portakabin. So with the investment in our infrastructure the board was confident as long as we didn't go down this year we would then be able to attract better players and have some good youth coming through. In all ways round we would be in a better position. Martin was a driving force behind this commitment and I don't think anybody would disagree that changes had to be made. It was more of a long term plan rather than what buckle did. What a few of you are not realising is Alan knill has come in and has been given nearly a free reign to bring in players as we were in trouble so now the board has thrown money at the first team to protect our league status. If Martin was able to bring in players when we were a few points from the play offs we may not have been in the situation that we are now in.
Martins record in the transfer market has generally been good if you look at some of the gems he has picked up it proves that when given the money he can find the right people.

My view of it is that you cannot judge ling up against knill because their remits are completely different, Martin was trying to change the whole infrastructure while working within his budget, while Alan Knill is only interested in and rightly so given our situation is keeping us up. Who knows that if Alan was the long term manager and asked to work within those restraints would he fail miserably ?

[supergulls]

I feel sorry for Ling, this situation you would not wish on anyone. However, from the players that Ling has signed, it is clear that he does not have his finger on the pulse or the contacts to help us achieve anything at this level. The two players that Knill has brought in are the difference currently of us being bottom of the table, compared with our current position. All this achieved in a short space of time. I personally agree with the sentiments that the next manager should be based in Torquay. Commuting for this job for our location just does not work and heeps the amount of stress and fatigue onto any person trying to cope with it. I keep reading that Ling has a rolling contract, surely this contract expires at the end of the season and would be renewed for another season if both parties agreed?

So he doesn't have his finger on the pulse but he has brought in

Poke
Saah
Downes
Howe
Cruise
Macdonald

Shall I keep going because amongst the top four is most probably our best performers and this seasons player of the year.

[Mav]

Although Ling signed Poke, this was not surely down to anything other than club new Poke and Ling was advised to get him when he became available?
I also notice that we now have so many people singing the praises of Cruise (he has been very decent of late) How many times did Ling start him?
As much as I like both Downes and Saah, I have to say as a back line combination they are one of the main reasons we are where we are, and that's quite simply a poor side who struggle to score goals, and concede sloppy goals.

[CP Gull]

I feel the need to clarify some points as it doesn't matter how many times facts are placed on here people either read them wrong or just decide to twist and manipulate the facts for their own agenda. Southampton gull has been one of the only posters who has any real understanding of what is going on and has been on the button with his views. Let me go over some of the issues from above to finally put them to bed

The year rolling contract; this is exactly as Southampton gull says it has no end date so whenever the board and the manager wish to part company there will always be a years compensation to pay regardless of results unless the manager has committed gross misconduct the compensation will always be payable. As we know some clubs sign managers on 3 year deals such as Cambridge united did with Martin, well this way if you wish to part ways after shall we say 6 months you still pay the manager 30 months wages. So if you look at it from the other side maybe the board thought they were being prudent by not entering into long contracts.

Bringing in players
Martin asked the board to bring in fresh players when the transfer window opened but was turned down, I have already named the players on another thread that he wanted to bring in. At the time the board thought we were safe and Martin was achieving his target set by the board which was a mid table finish, this target was set because they felt we over achieved last season and with the loss of eunan, bobby etc this would be realistic. It was felt that this project that we had begun was well underway with the improvements to the training ground and the bench and also the investment in the youth policy draining any money that would have been available for new players. But this investment was needed for the bigger picture as you cannot attract good players to the club when your training facilities resemble a farmers field and a portakabin. So with the investment in our infrastructure the board was confident as long as we didn't go down this year we would then be able to attract better players and have some good youth coming through. In all ways round we would be in a better position. Martin was a driving force behind this commitment and I don't think anybody would disagree that changes had to be made. It was more of a long term plan rather than what buckle did. What a few of you are not realising is Alan knill has come in and has been given nearly a free reign to bring in players as we were in trouble so now the board has thrown money at the first team to protect our league status. If Martin was able to bring in players when we were a few points from the play offs we may not have been in the situation that we are now in.
Martins record in the transfer market has generally been good if you look at some of the gems he has picked up it proves that when given the money he can find the right people.

My view of it is that you cannot judge ling up against knill because their remits are completely different, Martin was trying to change the whole infrastructure while working within his budget, while Alan Knill is only interested in and rightly so given our situation is keeping us up. Who knows that if Alan was the long term manager and asked to work within those restraints would he fail miserably ?

I think all the points you make are spot on. The only points I would add is that I'm not sure that the Board have exactly thrown money at Knill. I seriously doubt that young Chapell is costing us much and it sounds as though we have also got quite a good deal from Notts County for Labadie too. We are probably having to pay a fair chunk, if not all, of Benyon's wages but to be fair he was a Shaun Taylor signing. That said, if Knill had had more success in bringing more players in over the last few weeks I am sure, given the circumstances, that the Board would indeed have backed him to the hilt.

I have felt, for a long time, and Martin Ling admitted as much in an interview he gave, that the loss to Harrogate in the FA Cup was in effect his "spending money" for the January window .... gone out the window. If we had progressed, beaten Hastings in he next Round and who knows who else, I am sure the prize money alone would have enabled Ling to strengthen one or two areas. But we didn't and the rest is history....

I agree that Ling's record in the transfer market has also been on he whole very good. Indeed one or two that we may perhaps have started to write off (Cruise, Leadbitter etc) have also started to come good.

My only thoughts on the whole Ling v Knill situation are that undoubtedly, in my opinion, we had become very "stale" under Lingy. The team selection and tactics had become too predictable and yes, even boring (particularly away from home I believe). Now Ling's personal problems may, or may not, have been a contributory factory in all of this but what Knill has done, in my opinion, is revitalise the playing squad, given it a fresh energy.

Not only has he recruited well (Labadie, Chapell) but he has also reinvigorated some of the rest of the squad. How refreshing has it been to see Cruise finally being given his chance, to see young MacDonald keep the shirt over the excellent Downes, while both Mansell and Bodin seem to have their mojo back and to see us playing with pacy wingers and two genuine strikers up top makes a refreshing change too.

Lingy's team selections and tactics had started to get a little "tired" and maybe that is exactly how the man himself was feeling at the midway point of our season, knowing in his heart that with no further investment in he squad, we were going to fall short of a shot at the play offs this season and were destined to a season of mid table obscurity, a season of nothingness .... or so we, or more pertinently the Board, thought....

I like the way Knill has gone about his business and I also think Brass is an excellent addition. They are a very good management team in my opinion. That's not to say that Ling and (in his way) the very loyal Taylor aren't also though, but my concern would be that if he/they should be reinstated during the summer will they be able to get back back to where they were when everything seemed to be going so well? Can they be effective leaders of this group of players, can they motivate and inspire them, given all that has gone on this season?

[supergulls]

I spoke to Martin and he told me that cruise was going to be a big player for this club and as Alan knill also said he is always a stand out player in training, but I feel he wasn't going to be given his opportunity this season out of loyalty to nicho, but next season would have seen the emmergence of cruise. So mav if you don't rate the defence then who would be your vote for player of the year this season ?

[AustrianAndyGull]

Pokey and our defence are the reason why we aren't already a BSP side, when the attackers don't score or play sh*te then the defence still have to concentrate all game and not make any mistakes which can't be easy and it is a million times more difficult being a defender than an attacker IMO as you've always got to be on the ball and reading the game. I forgive and totally understand the mistakes that our centre halves at least have made this season and as for Downes, he's scored more than Bodin so now tell us who isn't doing their jobs properly! Yes our defence has cost us late goals and points but if the attacking players had more of an effect up front (as they are doing under Knill then it wouldn't have been so much of an issue). Forward players get away with murder, a missed chance and it's oh unlucky and they get applauded for having a go, a defender misses a cross or a ball through and it could be a goal and they have to guard against this all game so i believe Mav is incorrect to be polite.

[popside bob]

Have to agree Andy. Attack is the best form of defence as the saying goes.
I think Downes has been an outstanding signing, probably my player of the season. I just think maybe he has lost half a yard of pace due to playing 40 ish games this season. The rest he is getting at the moment may be a blessing if he is needed for the last few games. He has done remarkably well to stay fit and play so many games having had injury’s plague his career previously. Poke has done nothing wrong this season. Saah and McDonald have been solid and our full backs have been ok. It’s just the amount of defending they have done every game they were bound to concede.