What makes a good manager?

[AustrianAndyGull]

What DOES make a good manager?

Jose Mourinho. Is he a good manager? Give him the transfer funds equivalent to the national debt of a middling African country and he will win you things but if he took over the reins at Plainmoor having only a kids piggy bank full of coppers to spend on players then would he get us up?

I've always found this debate interesting as IMO there are managers like Jose who can manage the big egos sure but they need cash to be successful and if he managed us or Mansfield or Grimsby then I have no doubt he wouldn't get anywhere. So is he a good manager then?

You also get managers like Neil Warnock for example or ones that get recycled in the Championship who can get teams out of that league into the Prem but when they get in the Prem and are given cash they fail. You get managers who excel on next to nothing budgets and who struggle when taking bigger jobs with more cash to spend.

I would have thought that if you were a good manager overall then you could fit in anywhere with any budget and do well but it now seems there are managers like Mourinho who flit from top club to top club and do well but wouldn't even contemplate a test at a league 2 club and there are managers like Gary Johnson at Yeovil for example who can achieve remarkable success on a shoestring but they hardly ever get the opportunites for the bigger jobs. When they do though they generally fail.

So do we accept that there are two 'breeds' of managers then?

Ones that need loads of cash to do well and ones that do well without loads of cash.

Interesting.

[Gullscorer]

Well, anyway, not quite as boring as some of the other threads... =D

Worth thinking about though, Andy, and I'll turn it over in my (currently extremely sleepy) mind. If I'm still awake in a couple of hours, I'll post a more considered response..

[Glostergull]

Depends of what the person is managing
Is he a good manager of budgets. A good manager of people. or a good manager of resources.
A really good manager has to hold the respect of those he has under him.
He doesn't have to be popular but does need to be able to manage without alienating the club or company he runs.
I have found that many who go into managment are sometimes pushed there by popular demand because he was a nice guy who seemed like one of the lads. But I don't think that makes a good manager.
We have called for Tarzan to get the managers post but would he make the step of would have been seen as too much one of the guys and therefore didn't get the respect as boss.
take Alec Ferguson for example.
He ruled with a rod of iron. but he still managed to holed respect and rule with humour.
I think David Moyes is very much in that mould. I quiet serious studious man. he was player at Bristol City and commanded a respect that many could not because of his attitude.
Again look at someone like Gazza
Tried managing at the lower levels. But because of his attitude that he could be one of the lads he got nowhere, Same with the Chairman of Newcastle United. Tries too hard to be one of the lads. but because of that he doesn't command the respect of many of his peers or the fans.
You cannot be too hard, Hitler tried to rule by fear, but i the end they saw through the mask. Same with many of the other dictators. on the other hand We have seen those who tried to rule by being too soft. and were overthrown very quickly without establishing any sort of mark on history.
The same sort of things mark out whether a manager will survive and prosper or be doomed to the lower regions on football. We have Fatty Evens at Rotherham and Decanny man now at Sunderland ruling by fear. How long will they last and will they command the respect of their peers or be consigned to the rubbish dumps of footballs history books in time.
I have my doubts that either of those characters will be remembered with much respect. But Ferguson and Moyes will be for many years yet.
oh boy, you can tell it's a slow news day can't you. I am just rambling on with unsound mind yet again.QWonder what sort of hospital I am going into. Never mind. they have nice warm jackets. I know. They measured me for mine yesterday. Move over Troj. I need a sit down.

[Dave]

Good thread Andy.

Totaly dissargee with you on Jose Mourinho, he did not have a massive budget at Porto in an unfasionable league, yet won the champions league with them. The style and culture of England and English football is very different to Portugal/Spain and Italy yet he won the league here, ok had a massive budget still have buy/gel a team though.

In his time at Inter Milan not only did he win the league again in a different country, but knocked out the vastly superior Barcalona on the way to another Champions league win, not only did he have to get the tactics spot on, he also would have to have got into the mindset of that Inter team and make them believe they could do what no one in the football world gave them a prayer of doing, and beat Barca. Onto Madrid and as he rightly said Barca had a strangle hold on Spanish football until he arrived, winning both League and cup, looking at how league championships and cups won in different countries not forgeting the Champions league won with different teams is the one thing that sets him out from all others at the top level.

Thing is money is no guarantee of sucsess, it helps but some managers can't handled big budgets. Glad you mention Gary Johnson, he had a budget at Bristol City and Peterbrough, even would have enjoyed a bigger budget at Northampton than he ever had with Yeovil yet flopped with all expect Yeovil.

What makes a good manager? Many factors. I think being a good communicator , being able the work with poeple and not just the chairman and players but all members of staff at the club.

Good man manager, being able to spot which players need a hug and which players need the hair dryer. being able to put down a good training programme, being able to run a good youth development policy, knowing the right time to freshen things up, the right time to move a player on.

Knowing the right players to bring in that fit your budget, your ethos, and most importantly will fit well into your existing squad.

If you want a prime example of all the above, look no further than David Moyes.

[royalgull]

Luck, timing, getting the second chance and a big bank balance generally are the things needed for all these 'excellent' managers.

The key traits of succesfull managers, Brendan Rodgers manager of Liverpool has been sacked by Reading. Got the 2nd chance at Swansea, walked into a club that Martinez had made into a passing machine, had the best defense in the league for the previous 2 seasons, just lacked a striker. Signed Scott Sinclalir, won promotion and had a side that was capable of playing in the Premiership. One good season and he's landed a top job.

Gary Johnson, sacked by Posh, sacked by Northampton looks like career over, gets a chance at Yeovil again a club he knows, has a great love for and they love him, less pressure it clicks and works.

Martin Allen, considered a great manager by Barnet and Gills fans, not so by Cheltneham fans.

there are many managers that have a failure and never get another chance, does it make them bad managers? I'd say it makes them unlucky and maybe their choice of club or the timing that they got a job killed them. Top of my head David Kemp took his first managers job at Oxford, he took the job halfway through the season they were rock bottom, about £12million in debt, had the worst squad in the league but it was a chance to be a manager. They went down he got sacked and hasn't had another no1 job since.

Jamie Pitman at Hereford, the famous John Sitton at Orient, Kevin Dillon at Aldershot, Steve Kean and I'm sure there are many more managers that to date have never been given another chance.

Managers in this day and age are losing their importance especially at the top level. so many directors of nothing buying players, all the 'manager' does at some clubs is coach the players bought for him. Was Di Matteo tactically brilliant for Chelsea to win the European Cup or inn reality were they just lucky? How many pens does Messi miss? Their goal was shooting practice second half and they pinched a goal on the break, Bayern miss a pen in the final and Chelsea win it on pens.

It's at our level where managers earn their corn, where they have no money, a tiny budget and they need to use every contact they've found throughout their careers to get a squad together and be competitive.

[Plymouth Gull]

David Moyes for me has the chance to prove he is a very good manager now. Started in the lower leagues before getting the job at Everton, where he's been restricted quite badly with regards to transfer budgets but he has turned them into a consistent force in the top 7 which is no mean feat. If he can continue the success the SAF has had at Old Trafford then for me he has shown that he is a very, very good manager in all circumstances, which can't be said for many others.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Yes agree Nick. Moyes will be under pressure to win things, play decent football and sign some big names and if he can handle this then he already has done it on a consistent basis with Everton having minimal funds so i'd say he would then be a much better manager than Mourinho. I know someone said that Mourinho won the Champions League with Porto on a limited budget in comparison to the other clubs but that is tournament football and anything can happen although it was a great achievement.

[Plymouth Gull]

I don't think he will be under great pressure straight away. A top 3 finish next year with decent showings in the CL and FA Cup would be reasonable. There was always going to be a period of transition after Fergie left, but I think within 2/3 seasons Moyes will have won more than one trophy for United.

This season is going to be interesting I think as City are spending big, Mourinho will be a boost for Chelsea, Arsenal are finally looking like spending money, Spurs if they keep Bale could easily challenge the top 3 again, while even Liverpool could stake a claim for a top 4 place.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Brian Cloughs mum and dad?