Political Thread

[Southampton Gull]

As rightly pointed out by Trojan the following quotes were deserving of another thread, so I've started this one and supplied quotes from Emet and myself. If you want to add your own viewpoints and opinions please do join in.

What did anyone expect under a Tory government? Cuts in the alcohol content, cuts in the age of the wine, cuts in the higher (50%) rate of income tax for themselves and their rich mates, now cuts in the NHS (remember multi millionaire Tory bastards can pay for private healthcare -and the rest of you can die).
Why are ordinary people stupid enough to vote CON servative?
Because they are stupid! :evil:

(PS Is Thatcher dead yet? I could do with cheering up)

And of course we all saw what a superb job the Labour incompetents did during their reign. Rich Labour assholes can also afford private healthcare and education. For all you write about Conservatives, which I agree with, you can right exactly the same for Labour, you'd also be able to say the same for Liberals too, the voting system in this country is what enables all these corrupt politicians the scope to screw us all over time and time again it isn't likely to change during our lifetime either.

Not gonna disagree with what you've put mate, fact is 'New' Labour isn't labour at all, its a little less right wing than Camerons mob. Blairs dad is a paid up member of the Con party and Blair went to a private school. Says it all really, but at least the NHS was safer in their hands, and the rich did pay abit more of the burden in tax. They had a lot of years to undue some of the crap left by Major & Co and did nothing.
Its an in built hatred (and thats not too strong a word) for the Cons. We used to make the best steel and ships in the world and had a mining industry second to none, but we predominantly voted labour and Thatcher didnt like it. Now we've got call centres and nowt. All of todays major problems in our society can be traced back to Thatchers time in office.
By the way is she dead yet? I could do with cheering up.

We'll have to agree to disagree on who was at fault for the decline of the British manufacturing industries, I say it lies firmly between Unions that grew to become just like our political parties and successive Tory and Labour governments, but then I've never belonged to or needed to belong to a Union, probably wouldn't want to either, whereas you live and work in an environment where Unions are part and parcel of life, totally different people, but at least we have one thing in common

[Trojan 67]

The following words I ask you to read for these are the words of instruction :

Be moved by need and never by greed for greed is the seed of destruction.

Liars and cheats will deceive and accuse for these are their tools of obstruction.

Be selective and observant of friends you choose for friends are the foundation of construction.



Politicians : liars and cheats. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Southampton Gull]

I'll move this very worthy reply from Yellow to this thread, as I can honestly say I never thought I would agree with anything Tony Benn said.

Now that struck a chord SG.

I offer you the following from Tony Benn - Cabinet Minister in the 1964–1970 Labour Government:

"As a minister, I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule. This power was revealed even more clearly in 1976 when the IMF secured cuts in our public expenditure. These lessons led me to the conclusion that the UK is only superficially governed by MPs and the voters who elect them. Parliamentary democracy is, in truth, little more than a means of securing a periodical change in the management team, which is then allowed to preside over a system that remains in essence intact. If the British people were ever to ask themselves what power they truly enjoyed under our political system they would be amazed to discover how little it is, and some new Chartist agitation might be born and might quickly gather momentum."

[EmetEdadsBeard]

During the last 'Labour' government we had the truckers and farmers blockading the roads at the outragious price of fuel, up to 90p a litre. Now its £1.31 and guess what? NOTHING. Strange that (from our lovely Tory loving farmers and road haulage people) isnt it?
If our farmers had been predominantly Labour supporters during Thatchers '80s, and coal miners had been Tories, Britain would now be the worlds biggest exporter of coal, and importer of food.
Is she dead yet? I could do with cheering up......

[cambgull]

I'm pretty sure she's not dead yet but probably not far off.

As for politics, we'll just go round on the classic political merry-go-round as we always do. We'll eventually get bored of Conservatives and vote Labour back in. Unfortunately we have a country full of complete morons and most of them are middle class. Nobody seems to understand that all 3 main parties will screw us over in some new way every term. For those of us earning under 25k a year we'll just keep getting killed by tax until theres 5 million unemployed and a million homeless. Too much is blamed on the recession, it's the one main policy that is passed every term from every party which gets into power which has gradually led us to this point. The new tax rules in April will help us out too when we lose a third of our earnings. As much as people seem to want Maggie back, (whether sarcastic or not) it was her that started it.

[Southampton Gull]

During the last 'Labour' government we had the truckers and farmers blockading the roads at the outragious price of fuel, up to 90p a litre. Now its £1.31 and guess what? NOTHING. Strange that (from our lovely Tory loving farmers and road haulage people) isnt it?
If our farmers had been predominantly Labour supporters during Thatchers '80s, and coal miners had been Tories, Britain would now be the worlds biggest exporter of coal, and importer of food.
Is she dead yet? I could do with cheering up......

I sincerely hope that isn't a serious wish of yours as it would suggest to me that your life must be really miserable. Just thank your lucky stars that you live in a tolerant society that allows you the freedom to write in that fashion and not somewhere like Burma, North Korea or Libya where you would disappear without trace.

As alluded to by Yellow, the system is in place, "Leaders" come and go but those wielding the real power continue to operate out of the limelight and are far more culpable than Thatcher herself ever was. At least she gives you a focus for your hatred I suppose, as for myself, I prefer to look a lot deeper for the underlying cause of the breakdown of what this country used to stand for.

[yellow]

We are all in it together.

It s just that some of us are more in it than others...

[ferrarilover]

During the last 'Labour' government we had the truckers and farmers blockading the roads at the outragious price of fuel, up to 90p a litre. Now its £1.31 and guess what? NOTHING. Strange that (from our lovely Tory loving farmers and road haulage people) isnt it?If our farmers had been predominantly Labour supporters during Thatchers '80s, and coal miners had been Tories, Britain would now be the worlds biggest exporter of coal, and importer of food.
Is she dead yet? I could do with cheering up......

The reason they don't do this is because your beloved Labour government treated legislation like it's very own big wieldy stick to micro manage the lives of perfectly ordinary citizens, infringing our rights to peaceful protest and fair demonstration. After the original blockades, they did what they always did during their most recent catastrophy in office and changed the law to satisfy their own needs, in much the same way that Robert Mugabe seems so fond of doing.

Now, either present an argument based in fact not emotion, or don't make an argument at all!

Fecking leftist peasants.

Matt.

[Trojan 67]

In the motion picture Every Which Way But Loose, Philo Beddoe asks Clyde to hang a right turn. If he was driving a right hand drive vehicle, would he ask Clyde to hang a leftie ?

[EmetEdadsBeard]

I sincerely hope that isn't a serious wish of yours as it would suggest to me that your life must be really miserable. Just thank your lucky stars that you live in a tolerant society that allows you the freedom to write in that fashion and not somewhere like Burma, North Korea or Libya where you would disappear without trace.

As alluded to by Yellow, the system is in place, "Leaders" come and go but those wielding the real power continue to operate out of the limelight and are far more culpable than Thatcher herself ever was. At least she gives you a focus for your hatred I suppose, as for myself, I prefer to look a lot deeper for the underlying cause of the breakdown of what this country used to stand for.

Dave, I can guarantee you one thing. When she dies there will be 1000s of people up here celebrating. There's genuine hatred for her and her peers up here and people have very long memories. I was born and bred in a village that had two pits and all the add-ons that go with employment-a variety of shops, pubs and clubs, a cinema, brilliant nighlife (for a mining village at least). All gone, the place is like a ghost town, high unemployment, thick chavs on every corner, drugs, crime, everywhere either boarded up or knocked down. Its one of dozens, if not 100s of similar towns/villages.
Thatchers legacy to the North.

"The reason they don't do this is because your beloved Labour government treated legislation like it's very own big wieldy stick to micro manage the lives of perfectly ordinary citizens, infringing our rights to peaceful protest and fair demonstration."

As for this quote from Matt, you are obviously too young to remember the police state imposed on Mineworkers Re picketting their own workplaces, restriction on their movement (some mates of mine were turned back from a sea fishing trip by the police as they were accused of being pickets, this despite their bus being loaded with fishing tackle!). So just which party infringed the right to protest and demonstration, and even movement?

Ask yourselves this, if the deficit is so big, and we all have to pay for it through higher VAT, fuel duty etc why are they also talking about scrapping the 50% higher tax rate?

Sorry friends, my life isn't miserable, but it will start to lean that way the longer the spawn of Thatcher is PM as he rips off the working people of this country to pay for tax cuts for millionaire high earners. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Southampton Gull]

Emet, I'm no fan of Thatchers and we both know each other well enough to know I consider you a mate, I just can't agree with your sentiments regarding wishing her dead, I guess we won't ever agree and I don't have a problem with that. What happened to the coal industry wasn't purely down to one person, just the same as the recent police action against students in London isn't down to Cameron and Clegg. It's all down to who you make your scapegoat I guess. As I said previously, I look deeper into who wields the real power, who it is that decides how our lives are affected. You're an intelligent man but I think you're blinded by the feelings of your community rather than figuring things out for yourselves. Politicians are puppets, puppets controlled by multi-national corporations, multi-national corporations that ultimately decide how the world evolves (olr not, depending on your viewpoint). We need this discussion over a few drinks sometime, but I am enjoying the debate nonetheless.

I'd welcome more input from others, it's a highly emotive subject and we'll all see things differently. I'm probably closer to a Liberal than anything else, but they don't deserve any more credit than the main two parties, politicians of all parties spout the same rubbish at different times and never deliver on the promises they make because quite simply they can't.

[EmetEdadsBeard]

Emet, I'm no fan of Thatchers and we both know each other well enough to know I consider you a mate, I just can't agree with your sentiments regarding wishing her dead, I guess we won't ever agree and I don't have a problem with that. What happened to the coal industry wasn't purely down to one person, just the same as the recent police action against students in London isn't down to Cameron and Clegg. It's all down to who you make your scapegoat I guess. As I said previously, I look deeper into who wields the real power, who it is that decides how our lives are affected. You're an intelligent man but I think you're blinded by the feelings of your community rather than figuring things out for yourselves. Politicians are puppets, puppets controlled by multi-national corporations, multi-national corporations that ultimately decide how the world evolves (olr not, depending on your viewpoint). We need this discussion over a few drinks sometime, but I am enjoying the debate nonetheless.

I'd welcome more input from others, it's a highly emotive subject and we'll all see things differently. I'm probably closer to a Liberal than anything else, but they don't deserve any more credit than the main two parties, politicians of all parties spout the same rubbish at different times and never deliver on the promises they make because quite simply they can't.

I think we are closer than we both think mate. I lean left when it comes to working class folk because of my upbringing, but dont agree on a lot of the doctrine (dont EVER get me started on single chav parents getting ANY state benefits) but when it comes to Conservatives my heckles rise.
They look after no1 and f*ck the rest (hence my comment on the 50% tax band).
When we look at politicians what you said about puppets rings too true. But whatever shite 'New' Labour (not real labour that Im more akin to) come up with ie a complete bufoon like Prescott the Tories Top Trump him with........
Boris Johnson!
And if Matt or any other Tory voter on here can defend their party while this idiot is one of their leading spokesmen then God help us all.
Magners next time we cross paths. I still owe you gallons.

[Trojan 67]

Politics together with religion can wait.

First, theorists and practitioners.

Those delving into conspiracy are theorists. Practitioners are actively engaged in exposing conspiracy and its conspirators not by pointing the finger, but by looking the evidence direct in the eye.

The problem for some is not in the looking, but in the seeing.The evidence is clear to see.

Now fer cry sakes be careful with light, it can do more than blind.

[ferrarilover]

You're quite right Beardy, I am just about too young to remember Thatcher, but I stand by my sentiment (perhaps lost in the mock-anger tone of the post) that the reason no one blockades fuel depots is because the last government made it illegal to do so. In their 13 years, the last Labour government created more new statute law than had ever previously existed, they more than doubled the number of statutory offences. They did a vast amount of harm to our criminal justice system in an attempt to keep a needlessly tight grip on the population in general. It's all very Orwellian and a little bit scary.

It's my view that political commentators make far too much of the nature of the party in government. They're all the bloody same. I know businesses with 10,000 staff which are impossible for human beings to run effectively, what chance do the electorate believe the government has of controlling a country of 60,000,000 people? Whatever is going to happen in life is going to happen regardless of the name of the Prime Minister. We are totally powerless to do anything about it, so, essentially, let it pass you by.

Yes, I'm thoroughly pissed off with the price of petrol, but my whinging won't help, so I pay up and put up. In the same way that I don't like the idea that while I was busy getting shot at for my money, there was a girl (now in my class at school) punching out a kid and who is given so much money by the state for doing **** all that she is faced with the dilemma of whether to take her 2 year old to Disneyland Florida or Disneyworld California.
Nor am I much ennammered that, while we still have a postcode lottery for cancer treatments, fat people can get gastric bands fitted on the NHS. But what good is it my writing a strongly worded letter to the Daily Mail? Absolutely none, so I accept that Gordon, Tony, David (call him Dave) or even Winston, regardless of who is the figurehead, it is impossible to 'govern' a country in a manner which benefits more than a tiny little proportion of the people at any one time. One day, Jeremy Clarkson will be PM, then it will be my turn to be in the group feeling the benefit, until then, I'm going to get shafted and like it, just the same as everyone else.

Matt.

[Trojan 67]

What's done the most damage to the UK in my lifetime is Wile E Coyote (EU) from across the Channel.

Meep f*cking Meep. More than one can play the game of disguise.

When the green light indicates the time has come to neutralise collaborators of the *great work", I'll be well pissed off. Why ? Because those who got us into the EU in the first place are already dead. Those left to face the consequences of their predecessors actions won't be so lucky.

EU imposed USAT (Unitary Status Authority Torbay) is on its knees. Great, it makes the knockout kick to the face easier to deliver.

The wolf is dead, wolfie kaput, now go with the flow called the ENGLISH RIVIERA (Torquay, Paignton, Brixham).

:devil: o:)