redundancies

[supergulls]

well just as the clocks go back and Christmas is fast approaching some unlucky Torquay United staff received the terrible news yesterday that they were being made redundant. I think the supporters should look at this closely and realise the predicament we are in and should realise that the golden goose Thea is no longer prepared to keep laying eggs. There is no money we are broke and we find ourselves in a catch 22 situation. With no money to improve the team we continue to loose games and the hard working fans will continue to vote with their feet and not come through the turnstiles resulting in less revenue and more financial woe. If we look back to the beginning of the season there was a feel good factor and with a new team and a new manager everybody was feeling positive and our attendances were well up, I admit with the help of some good away support but home numbers were up. so now we find ourselves where we are struggling to get a win and near the foot of the table. Unless things turn around quick The English Riveria is quickly becoming a not so great place to be.

From looking on twitter yesterday some people will be surprised by some of the people who have been made redundant one in particular being our club secretary

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/Torqu ... z2hIW6du4V

[Behind-the-Gulls]

All redundancies are to be regretted and,are of course, painful for those concerned.
But TUFC is no different than any other business and much better tough decisions are taken now for the long-term benefit/future of the club than leaving it until its too late and we find ourselves in the brown-stuff.
Andy Candy is a very "hands-on" CEO,so will no doubt be able to pick-up some of the tasks of those who've gone(don't know who?)
Hope they have kept on those who work to generate income for the club as more off-field marketing/sales are essential to drive the club forward.
We also have some very competent volunteers in the office and we can all do our bit by getting friends and neighbours,family members etc ,along to Plainmoor in the coming weeks. Of course the management and players will ultimately dictate the numbers coming through the gate and the success of the club on the field-leading to more income generated off it.

[Dave]

Echo the sentiments above.

Heard about this at the weekend, there were a few who seemed to know about it. This is exactly why the club should sack Alan Knill and Chris Brass, a real snip at around £200,000 cost to pay them off, the club should then appoint a manager who has never really been below Championship level , give them at least £2million all paid for when our gates rise from 2,500 to 2,650 ( note the sarcasm)

Said it a few times, the club is desperate for new investment, we as fans have two choices, one, back the club, the manager and team. Two, disappear, go and watch your local SDL side for free, and help put the club where you have been telling it’s going for some time, never mind at least you will have had the benefit of hindsight, and will be able to say, I told you so.

[wodger of awabia]

Well, if Knill's team don't perform & attract the crowds then staff will have to be made redundant. I don't know what proportion of the total income is generated through gate receipts but I would guess that it is a large percentage. People will not invest in a failing team that do not own their ground unless they are TUFC nuts, & have loads of dosh to chuck around. All of the club owned houses that were bought for players/staff to rent were sold decades ago so IMO there is not a lot to attract new investors.

[Alpine Joe]

supergulls

If we look back to the beginning of the season there was a feel good factor and with a new team and a new manager everybody was feeling positive

supergulls is right, you would only have to look back at this forum during the Summer months to see plenty of people feeling good about the sacking of Martin Ling, and feeling even better when Shaun Taylor joined him in leaving the club. The clear majority view was that both Knill and Brass being appointed would give a further boost to the positivity. That Summer feel good factor cost a lot of money, paying up the contracts of Ling and Taylor then dishing out new ones to bring Knill and Brass down from the North.

Your feel good factor didn't come cheap and those calling for Ling and Taylor to be shown the door and for Knill and Brass to be ushered in through it in the opposite direction must surely feel duty bound to go along and give there continued backing to the changes they were asking for. As supergulls also commented above "There is no money we are broke". If you wanted Ling out then it was common sense you'd be stuck with the new man for some considerable time as the cash would then have been spent, and it's no longer there to be re-spent on paying off Knill and Brass... let alone digging up further cash for new appointments.

There was only money for one roll of the dice. All we can do is pray that the Group 1 fans , be they on in the Boardroom, on the terraces, or on this Forum will ultimately be proved right , and that they haven't made an expensive miscalculation. As for the Group 3 fans, well they're gradually attempting to change their position a bit more as each week passes, but thanks to the archives we know exactly who they are

[Fonda]

Probably stating the obvious, but this indicates some serious issues behind the scenes. Redundancies are obviously awful for the poor folk involved - but they are not good for a business either. No business wants to be associated with the headlines (ok, it won't be the first story on the BBC news this evening, but you get the point) we've made today unless it is absolutely necessary. And if we are so desperate that we've needed to dispense with (from what I can distinguish) 1 full-time member of staff and 2 part-time members of staff, desperate is exactly what we are. That £50k saving (complete guesstimate obviously) is worth more to us at the current time than the negative headlines - that says it all.

[ferrarilover]

Well, if Knill's team don't perform & attract the crowds then staff will have to be made redundant. I don't know what proportion of the total income is generated through gate receipts but I would guess that it is a large percentage. People will not invest in a failing team that do not own their ground unless they are TUFC nuts, & have loads of dosh to chuck around. All of the club owned houses that were bought for players/staff to rent were sold decades ago so IMO there is not a lot to attract new investors.

Do you remember the good old days too, when, under Ling, we made the Playoffs? Christ, getting 10,000 people a week through the gates was amazing.

It's got bollocks all to do with the football on offer and everything to do with an apathetic Torbay public.

Matt.

[Jerry]

I'm slightly concerned that people on here clearly knew about these redudancies at the weekend but the people affected have only been told today.

Our club seems to have more leaks than a Welsh greengrocers!

[Dave]

I'm slightly concerned that people on here clearly knew about these redudancies at the weekend but the people affected have only been told today.

Our club seems to have more leaks than a Welsh greengrocers!

I know where your coming from Jerry and agree ( having been made rudundant in the past myself and know what it feels like), however I very much doubt they only found out today.

[Dave]

Do you remember the good old days too, when, under Ling, we made the Playoffs? Christ, getting 10,000 people a week through the gates was amazing.

It's got bollocks all to do with the football on offer and everything to do with an apathetic Torbay public.

Matt.

Totaly agree, if we had won our first 10 games on the spin, there would not be 3,000 in the ground.

[Richinns]

Totaly agree, if we had won our first 10 games on the spin, there would not be 3,000 in the ground.

Matt and Dave are spot on.

No matter how the team are doing on the field nor what incentives the club try to promote off it - the gate remains pretty unresponsive

[supergulls]

Do you remember the good old days too, when, under Ling, we made the Playoffs? Christ, getting 10,000 people a week through the gates was amazing.

It's got bollocks all to do with the football on offer and everything to do with an apathetic Torbay public.

Matt.

To be fair matt I think it does have quite a bit to do with the football on offer if you look to the first game of the season against Wimbledon who hardly have fantastic away support we got 3441 through the gate before a ball had been kicked, then fast forward to our last home match and we have 2559 against York. If your Arsenal at the emirates and they are going through a rough spell and the attendance drops by a 1000 its going to be unnoticeable in the grand scheme of things but when your Torquay and you loose a 1000 fans its the difference between going skint.

In football you will always get a hardcore and you always get the floating support which comes out when the team is doing well or if people want to watch a decent match. When you are at the foot of lg2 your not going to appeal to the floater to part with £20 to watch the home team get smashed. Also in the playoff game against Cheltenham we had 3606 through the gates but that was without the bench as it was still under construction and as I remember the rest of the ground was jammed packed that night so I would say if the bench was open we may have seen an even higher attendance as more could have been given to Cheltenham.

[AustrianAndyGull]

supergulls supergulls is right, you would only have to look back at this forum during the Summer months to see plenty of people feeling good about the sacking of Martin Ling, and feeling even better when Shaun Taylor joined him in leaving the club. The clear majority view was that both Knill and Brass being appointed would give a further boost to the positivity. That Summer feel good factor cost a lot of money, paying up the contracts of Ling and Taylor then dishing out new ones to bring Knill and Brass down from the North.

Your feel good factor didn't come cheap and those calling for Ling and Taylor to be shown the door and for Knill and Brass to be ushered in through it in the opposite direction must surely feel duty bound to go along and give there continued backing to the changes they were asking for. As supergulls also commented above "There is no money we are broke". If you wanted Ling out then it was common sense you'd be stuck with the new man for some considerable time as the cash would then have been spent, and it's no longer there to be re-spent on paying off Knill and Brass... let alone digging up further cash for new appointments.

There was only money for one roll of the dice. All we can do is pray that the Group 1 fans , be they on in the Boardroom, on the terraces, or on this Forum will ultimately be proved right , and that they haven't made an expensive miscalculation. As for the Group 3 fans, well they're gradually attempting to change their position a bit more as each week passes, but thanks to the archives we know exactly who they are

Up until the word 'dice' this was a spot on post. We gambled on Knill thinking we couldn't sink any lower but we have IMO. Now there is nothing left in the coffers should the Knill / Brass combo not be able to arrest a continuous and alarming series of events ranging from ridiculously unfortunate injury crisis to ridiculously bizarre managerial tactics and decisions. It does appear that it was one last roll of the dice and now we've got until April to see which way it falls.

I personally am not confident that Knill will make his tenure here a success but even if we do poorly this season then I have had my cake and eaten it and I accept we can't just go hiring and firing managers and I would be ok with another season under the bloke. We have to make the best out of a bad situation, so does the club and so does Knill and the players and this is it. Sh*t or bust.

I found the last bit of Alpine Joe's post a little childish which is unusual as he is usually such a reserved and analytical character. It is more likely to be me knocking out immature stuff but no offence AJ. I don't personally care who hates Knill, who loves Ling, who thinks we're crap, who thinks we're good or whatever. I accept AJ is referring to Richinns thread but it appears he takes umbrage at fans who wanted Ling out and now want Knill out. If there are people out there who think this then so what? So long as they go along to the games and offer their support wherever they can i'm perfectly happy for them to have that opinion. It's no skin off my nose.

I find it ironic how some people criticise me for getting narky with posters whose views differ from my own yet here is a case in point yet from someone else.

Finally if I may offer my utmost sympathy to anyone who has lost their jobs at the club. There is really nothing I can add to that. Matt has a great point, if the people of Torquay don't want a football club then they are going the right way about it. I feel guilty because if lived nearby i'd be there every week but all I can do is get when I can and spend cash in the club shop and online. I also feel guilty about slating ticket prices. I would welcome an increase if it meant a few extra quid to tide us over although I accept this may be a drop in the ocean and it may adversely effect gates too.

I just don't really know what the way forward is just that I wouldn't give two sh*ts about floating fans. External factors dictate whether they come or not, whether we are playing like Barca, whether we are charging 50p to get in or whether we are top of the league or not. They come when they want regardless, they are an unreliable income stream so we should be concentrating on the hardcore, the middle ground of fans who may be on the cusp of becoming hardcore and kids in schools. Temporary fair weather fans can p*ss off for me although no doubt someone will come on and tell me i'm being stupid as it wouldn't be economically viable for us as a club if this was to happen. That's how I feel.

[tomogull]

supergulls supergulls is right, you would only have to look back at this forum during the Summer months to see plenty of people feeling good about the sacking of Martin Ling, and feeling even better when Shaun Taylor joined him in leaving the club. The clear majority view was that both Knill and Brass being appointed would give a further boost to the positivity. That Summer feel good factor cost a lot of money, paying up the contracts of Ling and Taylor then dishing out new ones to bring Knill and Brass down from the North.

Your feel good factor didn't come cheap and those calling for Ling and Taylor to be shown the door and for Knill and Brass to be ushered in through it in the opposite direction must surely feel duty bound to go along and give there continued backing to the changes they were asking for. As supergulls also commented above "There is no money we are broke". If you wanted Ling out then it was common sense you'd be stuck with the new man for some considerable time as the cash would then have been spent, and it's no longer there to be re-spent on paying off Knill and Brass... let alone digging up further cash for new appointments.

There was only money for one roll of the dice. All we can do is pray that the Group 1 fans , be they on in the Boardroom, on the terraces, or on this Forum will ultimately be proved right , and that they haven't made an expensive miscalculation. As for the Group 3 fans, well they're gradually attempting to change their position a bit more as each week passes, but thanks to the archives we know exactly who they are

Fair post Alpine Joe but it cannot be denied that Knill and Brass guided us to league safety. Without their arrival I think we would be playing the likes of Braintree and Hyde now. However, I have a query. I understood both Ling and Shaun Taylor were on 'rolling' season by season contracts. So if their contracts came to an end last season and were not renewed, why are they entitled to pay-offs? Sorry for staff being made redundant - never a good time to lose your job, but couldn't be any worse than at present.

[tomogull]

supergulls supergulls is right, you would only have to look back at this forum during the Summer months to see plenty of people feeling good about the sacking of Martin Ling, and feeling even better when Shaun Taylor joined him in leaving the club. The clear majority view was that both Knill and Brass being appointed would give a further boost to the positivity. That Summer feel good factor cost a lot of money, paying up the contracts of Ling and Taylor then dishing out new ones to bring Knill and Brass down from the North.

Your feel good factor didn't come cheap and those calling for Ling and Taylor to be shown the door and for Knill and Brass to be ushered in through it in the opposite direction must surely feel duty bound to go along and give there continued backing to the changes they were asking for. As supergulls also commented above "There is no money we are broke". If you wanted Ling out then it was common sense you'd be stuck with the new man for some considerable time as the cash would then have been spent, and it's no longer there to be re-spent on paying off Knill and Brass... let alone digging up further cash for new appointments.

There was only money for one roll of the dice. All we can do is pray that the Group 1 fans , be they on in the Boardroom, on the terraces, or on this Forum will ultimately be proved right , and that they haven't made an expensive miscalculation. As for the Group 3 fans, well they're gradually attempting to change their position a bit more as each week passes, but thanks to the archives we know exactly who they are

Fair post Alpine Joe but it cannot be denied that Knill and Brass guided us to league safety. Without their arrival I think we would be playing the likes of Braintree and Hyde now. However, I have a query. I understood both Ling and Shaun Taylor were on 'rolling' season by season contracts. So if their contracts came to an end last season and were not renewed, why are they entitled to pay-offs? Sorry for staff being made redundant - never a good time to lose your job, but couldn't be any worse than at present.