Burton Albion v Torquay United - 22/10/13

[Gullscorer]

Yep, they started badly but then they fell away... as if through a trap door.

Keep falling... and the trap door gets ever closer..

And when the trap door beckons, stop falling, otherwise forget any thoughts of a great escape...

[AustrianAndyGull]

I don't mind starting badly, after all it's a new team and a new manager. I'm not THAT fickle. What I would have expected to see after 13 games however is a clear direction of what Knill is doing and where we are heading even if it's not quite coming off. The only thing I see different is that we are getting worse.

[wivelgull]

At long last everyone has realised that Brucie is right!!

[AustrianAndyGull]

He isn't right, he just says what he sees which is fair enough. We could win our next 10 on the spin and then Knill would be amazing but Brucie, like myself just can't see it. There is no evidence to support the notion that an upturn in fortunes is imminent and so that's all we have to go on.

[supergulls]

Cracking post Andy.

I think Nicho actually hit the nail on the head - perhaps inadvertently - with a tweet he sent last night, saying to the fans that "there's a lot of young lads who all need your help". We're packing the team with 18/19/20 year old loanees from Championship/Premier League clubs, all with incredibly little experience, and expecting them to work wonders.

And Brucie, you make some very good points. But a couple of things for what it's worth. Hawley was not playing left wing last night. It was a 4-2-3-1 with Craig, Bodin and Azeez all interchanging behind Hawley who was up top. He may have drifted wide at times but certainly wasn't on the wing.

And Cruise did as well as can be expected. He isn't a centre half, but he did as well he could've done. I'd have liked to have seen Mackenzie who is at least a natural CB, but I think he was carrying a knock.

I'm sorry but I'm going to agree with brucie, there was a spell in the game once mccallum had come on where he went up top and hawley was wide on the left before knill realised that wasn't working and brought Chappell on and we reverted to a 4-4-2.
And just to confirm kirtys Mackenzie is perfectly fit and did not have a knock of any kind and has been fit for the last 3 weeks. I know this because I spoke to him on Monday and I can tell you the lad is frustrated at being left out to a left back when he is perfectly fit.

[miltonkeynesgull]

I'm sorry but I'm going to agree with brucie, there was a spell in the game once mccallum had come on where he went up top and hawley was wide on the left before knill realised that wasn't working and brought Chappell on and we reverted to a 4-4-2.
And just to confirm kirtys Mackenzie is perfectly fit and did not have a knock of any kind and has been fit for the last 3 weeks. I know this because I spoke to him on Monday and I can tell you the lad is frustrated at being left out to a left back when he is perfectly fit.

No probs Super, and I bow down to your knowledge on Mackenzie, as having read your postings on here I very much respect what you have to say.

I had been told Mackenzie and Chapell had been carrying knocks into the game, hence why neither started, but clearly this is incorrect.

As manful a job as Cruise has done filling in at CB, it would've been nice to see Kyrtis get a go considering how well he did at Port Vale last year.

[wodger of awabia]

If thats not bad enough Ferrarilover seems to have left the building (or probably too embarassed to raise his head after his "we will be well clear of the bottom in six games time" quote) and even gullinwotplaces seems to have smelt the coffee.

If thats not bad enough Ferrarilover seems to have left the building (or probably too embarassed to raise his head after his "we will be well clear of the bottom in six games time" quote) and even gullinwotplaces seems to have smelt the coffee.[/quote]

Yes you are right! & what's more Andy is in danger of receiving childish insults from that famous Exeter City fan gullintwoplaces if he continues to call Knill a clown , the team crap,or dares to use the word Messiah in any context what so ever! :na: :na: :na:

[brucie]

I am not actually for sacking Knill to be honest. I did actually notice some improvement on Saturday as I posted after the match. But its always the same in a struggling team isn't it - percieved improvement (or excellence) according to Knill anyway is quickly followed by a debacles (Burton)
Really anything we get on Saturday would be a bonus, but after that we are talking games that we really must start winning.
Hopefully Knill might have his main troops available by then to steady the ship - I somehow hope he finds room in the team for O'Connor as well who was excellent againts Mansfield.

[supergulls]

No probs Super, and I bow down to your knowledge on Mackenzie, as having read your postings on here I very much respect what you have to say.

I had been told Mackenzie and Chapell had been carrying knocks into the game, hence why neither started, but clearly this is incorrect.

As manful a job as Cruise has done filling in at CB, it would've been nice to see Kyrtis get a go considering how well he did at Port Vale last year.

Your right mk I think you should always play players in their preferred position so playing cruise at center back when you have a fit one on the bench is just madness. But do I expect any different now no I don't, The craziest of decisions yesterday that has come to my attention is that mccallum played 90 mins for west hams u21s on Monday before flying up the M1 to meet our squad and then being put on the bench not knowing any of our players names or any of our set plays and playing 50 mins. Surely with all this in mind Benyon was the option with mccallum coming into the squad for Saturday after a few days training.

[Gullscorer]

I remember more than one past season when the first few months were a disaster, but the team picked up in the new year to begin a successful run, resulting in an enjoyable end to the season; and in one year (I cannot remember which one) actually challenging for a play-off place.

All is not lost yet...

[ferrarilover]

I couldn't make last night and, unlike some, I don't like to offer opinion (disguised as fact, no less) on games based on what the commo says. Doubly so when the commo in question is Julian Gaunt, who appears to know less about football than my washing machine does.

That's right Royal, definitely Craig's fault. I mean, we were destroying teams until he came into the side. Winning 6-0 every week with some Premier League quality midfield play. Then, suddenly, NC comes in and we lose to a side that everyone thought we'd beat comfortably. I wouldn't mind, but everyone else was so good last night that Craig really stood out as being the only poor performer.

I think all that wanking over your Martin Rice scrapbook id starting to affect your mind.

We lost a game we expected to lose. We played a scratch side because we're in panic mode because things aren't going our way. Games are following a pattern and that pattern needs to be broken. Despite all the bluster on here, there is no consensus as to how that should be achieved. This suggests that there is no single 'right' answer. Knilly is, therfore, using what he knows (which, let's face it, is a damn sight more than any of us) to change things for the better. It might take him a while, he might hit upon it straight away.

Think back two years. We were playing some dreadful football and getting knocked about by teams who were making us look stupid for 90 minutes. Ling was the worst manager in the world, we needed someone else, why doesn't he bring in loanees etc etc. Then, one Tuesday night, AFCW turn up. The Internet experts had decreed that we would be lucky to get nil. As it happens, as you'll remember well, we won 4-0 and never looked back. Everything just clicked. The magic formula had been found. We went from being utter tripe to auto-promotion favourites in about 6 weeks.
Knill will have all his players back before long (unless Bodin's twisted leg turns out to be serious) and he can go back to playing the way he envisaged when he signed people throughout the summer.
I genuinely think that some among our membership get the impression that managers just sign players willy-nilly and then pick the best XI from that and to hell with formation etc. Sadly, despite what the PlayBox has told you, that's not how management works. Being Torquay United, we don't have the luxury of being able to sign two full starting XI who can all play the manager's preferred way. Accordingly, when people are missing, through injury or suspension, we have to divert from Plan A and go to Plan B, C or D. By their very nature, those later plans won't be as good as Plan A, so the performance and results will suffer. It follows immediately that, given our stature will only very rarely allow us to have a Plan A which is much beyond mid-table mediocrity, our Plans B, C and D are likely to be leaving us perilously close to the foot of the table.

Football turns on tiny margins. Whole seasons are determined not by the big things, the 7-0 wins or the £50, 000, 000 striker, but by the minutiae.
Make a minute change to two incidents from the last two games and see what happens. We're swapping Bodin's luck with Kee's. Against Mansfield, Bodin's shot hits the post and goes in. We win 1-0. Against us, Kee's shot hits the post and, instead of falling nicely for a team mate, it goes out of play. We hold out for a 0-0 draw (which, from what I can gather, is where it was heading until they scored). We have a win and a draw from two games we all thought we'd lose. We have an extra 3 points, we're 4 places further up the table and we're on here taking about the possibility of 7 points in a week. As it is, the situation is different from that, not because the major elements of the club are at fault, but because the minutiae hasn't run for us just yet.
We haven't been totally outclassed, we haven't been hammered into the ground (except by Fleetwood, but every dog has its day).
We've got Pompey next. Hopefully we'll have something like our first choice defence back. Pompey are a big, ugly side who are unlikely to play a lot of football, preferring instead to get it up to the big front men. If we can deal with that (two fit centre backs might help), then we have a chance. A point against Pompey would be welcome. Then move on to a few games which won't be, on paper at least, quite so tough.
It's 13 weeks into the season, and we've already played 8 of the top 10 sides, with 6 of those 8 coming away. I know you've got to play those sides regardless, but that's still a tough opening in anyone's book.
We can achieve 10 points in the next month (UTAI Plymouth away). If we do, that will change the atmosphere completely, both at the club and on here.

Off to carve a pumpkin. If you get sufficiently worried that you have to reference my absence again, Tezza, try to be a big boy for Daddy and not cry.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I like your posts Matt, they make me take a step back and think about my own views and if I've been like a screaming banshee in my scathing criticisms. I must admit, a lot of that i can understand where you are coming from however i cannot alter my opinion on Knill until i have seen the one thing from him that would make ALL the difference to our season.

COMMON SENSE

It's not about having a plan a,b,c or k it's about keeping things as simple as possible and trying to get some sort of continuity without dissecting the starting 11 each week. If he understands that they perhaps he can get some sort of foothold into this season and we can start by progressing a little bit at a time.

The key thing about Ling's tenure was that he stuck to a game plan regardless and like you say, season before last we started badly but then had the win against Wimbledon then Hereford and that was the touch paper lit. We never looked back. It became easier for the players because they all knew what job they were supposed to be doing. Currently our players not only don't know what they are doing but they don't even know if they are going to be in the squad from 1 week to the next (unless your name is Karl Hawley).

[hector]

Ferrari lives in a dream world. He has been making excuses of some sort for about 6 weeks now. It does seem as if there is a groundswell of opinion coming to the realisation that Knill is a poor manager. I suggest those expressing such opinions be mindful, that the forum godfather, Southampton Gull, may accuse you of being stupid for noticing something he hasn't yet, or better still, suggest you go off and support a Premiership team.

These players that are all set to return? Are these the same ones who were in the team when we were losing games before they went injured? Who exactly is due back that is going to turn it all around? Ben Harding? Nobody, that's who.

[Southampton Gull]

Mozika, Pearce, Poke, Downes, Harding and even Benyon who lost his place through injury and hasn't got it back yet. Nothing to miss there, is there Mummy's Boy?

I never accused you of being stupid, I said you were.

[arcadia]

I agree with Aust. Andygull against Mansfield, Chappell and Azeeze were taken off because they did know what they were doing and looked lost. There is not enough quality experience in the side..