Benefits Street

[chunkygull]

Has anybody else on here watched this on channel 4?

Somebody told me about it and they said they lived near the area in Birmingham it was filmed at one time and apparently it is exactly like this.

I have watched both episodes so far and in some ways I wasnt shocked at all, it was almost what I expected. In some ways it has changed some of my views on certain situations of people who are living on benefits. There are many in the programme who are blaggers, deadbeats, skivers, junkies, thieves, criminals, wasters and idiots, there are also some who do try hard or show a bit of initiative and try and do what they can to get by and make a living.

They all say there are no jobs and granted it is not easy, there are a few people in the programme who did try and when they say there is nothing they are not probably not lying. However there are many who dont try and dont have any intention of working, it is always someone elses fault, there are lots of excuses and there are many who would probably be considered unemployable, so what do we do with those people if the government insists they find a job even though there is no chance of that.

One thing you will notice there is people in poverty, poor living conditions, people going hungry and unable to put food on the table, but most of them smoke, quite a few drink and some wear designer label clothing (some stolen, some not).

A lot of the houses in this are Sh1tholes and they dont all live in luxury with big flat screen tvs and brand new leather sofas etc, even though we all know some do live in these circumstances. The residents were all complaining about their living standards which had me feeling a bit sorry for them, especially their children. The programme catches everybody at a time when most of them were having their benefits cut, or stopped and reality was beginning to bite. Some of them were fiddling the system though and one couple admitted on camera at one time they were receiving £1500 a month in benefits.

In one episode there was a focus on immigrants living in the street, a Romanian family who tried to find decent work, they were told England is a land of opportunity with jobs and money a plenty. There were loads of them including children living in a house not fit for purpose, money was scarce, they had a crap landlord, so they left declaring they were better off in Romania.

14 Romanian men then moved in, all living together (must have stunk), they came here with a promise of work at £50 for a 14 hour day, they ended up working 17 hours for a tenner. In the end they reported their so-called employer to the authorities but nothing was done. They all looked for other jobs but to no avail, althouh many could not speak English. All of them had also been told about a land of opportunity and endless riches. It changed some of my views a bit, when you see where they have come from you cant blame them for wanting to come here and try it, its not really their fault. None of the immigrants featured in the programme were claiming a penny off the state.

Anyway, the show has courted controversy in the papers, on the news, on the daily morning shows etc. I saw the other morning some out of touch harpie screaming on about how wrong the show was and its an insult, it pokes fun at the poor, needy and vulnerable, it should be banned and taken off tv. What a load of rubbish. That is like censorship and whitewashing surely. I didnt feel it was demonising or poking fun at vulnerable people, like I said, it has done the opposite for me, it has made me change some of my views in a positive way. The show portrays an ugly but truthful view of Britain but in some instances there is a camaraderie, a sense of community, pulling together and us against the world.

[chunkygull]

Sorry, heres the link if anybody hasnt seen it yet, but would like to watch it and see what all the fuss is about -

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/benefits-street/4od

[Southampton Gull]

I watched it and surprisingly had a lot of sympathy for the Romanians. They came looking for a better life, were prepared to work for it and not sponge off the state, it would have been nice to see them get a little bit of help with their asshole of a landlord. If the relevant parties tackled the right people I'm sure these immigramts would actually be a benefit to our society. As for the natural inhabitants, what do we expect from people who have to struggle to even get their litter removed when it should be. Surely it would be more cost effective for the refuse collectors to just take what is there in the first place rather than let it escalate until a major cleanup operation is required. This country is bananas, local councils operate with no real logic that I can see, for an immigrant family to come out and say that they had better facilities in their own country defies belief when they come here looking to improve their quality of life. Far from being a burden, they just wanted basic human comforts like heat and water.

The world has gone competely mad.

[lucy6lucy]

I watched it and surprisingly had a lot of sympathy for the Romanians. They came looking for a better life, were prepared to work for it and not sponge off the state, it would have been nice to see them get a little bit of help with their asshole of a landlord. If the relevant parties tackled the right people I'm sure these immigramts would actually be a benefit to our society. As for the natural inhabitants, what do we expect from people who have to struggle to even get their litter removed when it should be. Surely it would be more cost effective for the refuse collectors to just take what is there in the first place rather than let it escalate until a major cleanup operation is required. This country is bananas, local councils operate with no real logic that I can see, for an immigrant family to come out and say that they had better facilities in their own country defies belief when they come here looking to improve their quality of life. Far from being a burden, they just wanted basic human comforts like heat and water.

The world has gone competely mad.

Had they tried to claim on benefits, I have no doubt they would have been sorted. That's where the problem lies in this country. You only have to go chemist for prescription, spec savers, dentist, the first question asked are you claiming benefit, answer No and they are rubbing their hands. The country benefits(sorry for punt) those not working.

[DevonYellow]

Benefits fraud costs us an estimated £1.2 billion a year, sounds like a lot until you hear that an estimated £120 billion is lost in tax evasion, avoidance or uncollected.

Maybe the media would be better concentrating on the latter?

[ferrarilover]

Not really. It's not about the money, it's the principle of the thing. Here are we, working, doing our best and getting barely any further than those who do absolutely nothing by choice. Those who simply sit and do sod all throughout their lives deserve scorn and derision, they're a waste of blood and organs and should be rounded up and harvested for tissue. This isn't hyperbole, it isn't harsh, it's how life works in basically every other country on Earth. The feckless are left to starve to death. Darwinism still prevails, the strong survive, the weak do not. This is the natural order of things and I'm not really sure why we see fit to positively reverse that by taking from the strong and simply giving to the weak.

If someone has managed, by skill and cunning and hard-work and ruthlessness and other virtuous qualities to work themselves into a position where they can hide their money such that it saves them a noticeable sum of tax, then well done to them. Regarless, we've got £35,000,000,000 (which you know will turn into closer to £100,000,000,000) to spend on some fancy Dan railway line from London to... somewhere that isn't London. It's not like we seem to need that hundred and twenty bil.

Matt.

[DevonYellow]

There is nothing admirable about tax fraud, it's still fraud. The amount of publicity and resources spent on benefits fraud is completely disproportionate to the cost to the country.

The amount in unclaimed benefits is far more than the amount claimed fraudulently.

I'm not saying benefits fraud is ok, it's a grossly unfair abuse of a system designed to protect all of us, but I do feel that resources would be better spent combating tax fraud.

The messages sent out by documentaries such as this are dangerous.

[ferrarilover]

Well no, not really. It's preventative. If it was easy to swindle the system, many more people would try it. The thing with tax fraud is that only a very few people can do it to any meaningful extent. I didn't say it was admirable, but at least it takes some sort of skill and work, most unlike anything we see on Benefits Street (except where the dreaded Romanians are concerned).

As you say, the benefits system is there to protect those of us who fall upon hard times and need a safety net until they get back on their feet. That's an wonderful thing. What isn't a wonderful thing is allowing people simply to live a life funded entirely by the efforts of other people.

£26,000pa is considerably more than the majority of people on this forum earn for a 45 hour week. The idea that that amount my be awarded for absoltely no greater effort than asking for it, and indefinitely at that, is a damning indictment of some of the people with whom we share an island.

When I am PM, you'll get back what you've paid in up to a maximum of £10,000 across your whole life. If you choose to use that all in one 6 month chunk, then good luck to you. If you don't use it, it gets trebled and added to your Old Age Pension at the rate of an extra grand a year.

No one needs benefits for more than about 6 months. There are, despite the reports, plenty of jobs about. If the former lawyer has to go to Sainsbury's and stack shelves to make ends meet until a better job pops up, then so be it. Benefits needs not to be a viable alternative to making a useful contribution with your life.

Matt.

[happytorq]

Not really. It's not about the money, it's the principle of the thing. Here are we, working, doing our best and getting barely any further than those who do absolutely nothing by choice. Those who simply sit and do sod all throughout their lives deserve scorn and derision, they're a waste of blood and organs and should be rounded up and harvested for tissue. This isn't hyperbole, it isn't harsh, it's how life works in basically every other country on Earth. The feckless are left to starve to death. Darwinism still prevails, the strong survive, the weak do not. This is the natural order of things and I'm not really sure why we see fit to positively reverse that by taking from the strong and simply giving to the weak.

Matt.

I don't see how the 'principle of the thing' applies to benefit fraud but not tax evasion.

The vast majority of people pay the right amount of tax. There are a significant minority who use every single weaselly avenue to get out of paying what they should; this seems just as bad as the idea of benefits fraud.

It is the duty of the state to offer assistance to those in need. the state finances that assistance through taxation. There are of courses abuses of that assistance, and those people should be punished, but there are also abuses of the taxation system, and it generally appears that those people are *not* punished for essentially ripping off everybody else in the country. Whether or not it requires a level of skill and hard work to accomplish is irrelevant- it's gaming the system and more should be to do a: prevent it and b: mete out punishment for those that take advantage. The same thing applies to benefit fraudsters.

Honestly, I think the problem with the Conservative government (at least, what I can see from over here in yankeeland) is that they view anybody receiving any sort of state assistance as some sort of sponger who should be taken out to the barn and beaten like a dusty carpet - which is interesting given all of the benefits they give to businesses in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and the like.

[Gullscorer]

Anyone with debts or money problems should see this: http://www.stepchange.org/debtawareness ... 5H,7N3WD,1#

[AustrianAndyGull]

Too late for me GS. I'm well under.

Anyway, did anyone see the 'BENEFITS STREET - LIVE DEBATE' fronted by Richard Bacon? It was a superb programme about adverts and commercial breaks, it annoyed me though when those bits came on in between of Richard Bacon trying and failing to have a remotely serious debate about benefits. Next time I want wall to wall commercials please Channel 4. Honestly.

[Gullscorer]

You cannot expect anything in which Richard Bacon is involved to be anything like remotely serious..

[AustrianAndyGull]

There were politicians in it too so I suppose you are right GS.

[chunkygull]

I saw the benefit debate and yeah too many adverts ruined it making it impossible for the debate to get anywhere and flow. Richard Bacon didnt really help proceedings and was just annoying, obnoxious and inflammatory at times. He ought to change his first name to its old fashioned shortened version - Dick.

Channel 5 held a similar debate on benefits a few weeks earlier, jumping on the benefits street bandwagon. "White" Dee was on the panel in that show also (hope she's declaring all this extra income to the DWP), to be fair she took a lot more stick that night and showed amazing restraint. "Rent a Gob" Katie Hopkins was also on the show and to be fair she did make a few good points that many were agreeing with, but then she just goes too far and her manner is just repellent.

Clever old channel 5 also held a debate on immigration at the same time on the same night as channel 4 had their benefits debate, Katie Hopkins was on this also, I cant stand the woman but again she made a few good points that even a few people in the audience who were immigrants or 2nd/3rd generation were agreeing with, but again she went too far and her manner was repellent.

There was a fella interviewed and on the panel in both benefits debates, he was an odious over liberal little twerp in the first one but in the 2nd one he spoke a lot of sense about how more social housing should be built which would ease the cost of housing benefit and reduce the extortionate/ridiculous/over the top rent charged by greedy/money grabbing landlords, whilst also producing jobs and helping the economy.

There were a few opinions about tax evasion also. A few commentators mentioned why are we all kicking off about benefit fraud which statistics show is roughly 1% of the total welfare bill when supposedly estimates show we lose between 25 and 70 billion a year in tax evasion.

I see the point in this argument but there is still the fact that there are many people claiming benefits who could work but they just dont bother, dont try hard enough or they know how to play the system. There are many out there who irresponsibly have too many children and the tax payer picks up the bill.

I have no objection to people claiming benefits if they truly need them, you never know when things might go wrong or you might be down on your luck, it could happen to just about anybody, the system should be appreciated, we are truly blessed to have it. But it isnt and shouldnt be a long term solution for many.Its definitely ok if you truly through no fault of your own need it but not ok if you are taking the p1$$.


We did talk about all these things on another thread, there were various tales, scenarios and ideas for solutions put forward.

Reading through these again was quite good fun -

http://forum.torquayfans.com/viewtopic. ... &start=690

http://forum.torquayfans.com/viewtopic. ... &start=705

After watching the series Benefit Street I came to realise that some preconceived ideas about people on benefits are wrong, its not all flat screen tvs, leather sofas and luxury, but then again if you can afford to smoke, drink and wear designer/brand label clothing you should be able to feed and clothe your children.

I have seen a few situations with my own eyes where people have lost their income/job etc through no fault of their own and claiming benefits, especially disability is made extremely difficult, benefits get stopped because of paperwork or being expected to attend ridiculous ATOS appointments they cannot get to, and they then arent given bugger all to live on. On the other hand I have seen a few who live a jolly existence getting showered with money they dont warrant or deserve, the system is shafted.

The show changed my views a bit of some types of claimants, they are not soley to blame, it is the result of a very flawed system that allows it to happen. Right or wrong it is just in the nature of many to take advantage if the chance is there. Things do need to change though and somehow the p1$$taking has to stop.

Similar with immigration, the show helped me look at the situation of unskilled Eastern European migrants in a different light, they are not to blame for wanting to come to a country where they have been led to believe there are loads of jobs available and they will earn lots of money and there is plenty for everyone. Many who came here found the opposite, realised it is not always good here and found they may have been better off back home.

Watching the 2 benefit debates it did paint a bit of a picture that what some say is true in some cases, there are people in this country who are full of excuses and arent willing to take a job to tide them over until they get what they want or are qualified for. Hence the expression the pro-immigration brigade keep chanting about "immigrants do the jobs that the Brits wont do". I do hate that expression because there are a lot of people who would do those jobs but often there are'nt that many of them ( guess who has them).

One problem is a lot of employers now do have unrealistic and far too high expectations of prospective employees whilst they are only willing to pay people a pittance for what they are expected to do.

This was talked about a while ago here -

http://forum.torquayfans.com/viewtopic. ... 5&start=15

http://forum.torquayfans.com/viewtopic. ... 5&start=30

All I can say is people should be rewarded fairly for working and it should be a better option to work than to solely live off benefits, whilst the government should make it so we do not need unskilled migrants to come here because they should make our own citizens take those jobs and not let them have handouts if they refuse a fair opportunity of work.

[Gulliball]

I don't see how the 'principle of the thing' applies to benefit fraud but not tax evasion.

The vast majority of people pay the right amount of tax. There are a significant minority who use every single weaselly avenue to get out of paying what they should; this seems just as bad as the idea of benefits fraud.

It is the duty of the state to offer assistance to those in need. the state finances that assistance through taxation. There are of courses abuses of that assistance, and those people should be punished, but there are also abuses of the taxation system, and it generally appears that those people are *not* punished for essentially ripping off everybody else in the country. Whether or not it requires a level of skill and hard work to accomplish is irrelevant- it's gaming the system and more should be to do a: prevent it and b: mete out punishment for those that take advantage. The same thing applies to benefit fraudsters.

Honestly, I think the problem with the Conservative government (at least, what I can see from over here in yankeeland) is that they view anybody receiving any sort of state assistance as some sort of sponger who should be taken out to the barn and beaten like a dusty carpet - which is interesting given all of the benefits they give to businesses in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and the like.

This hits the nail on the head. People 'lazing around all day' and earning about the same as you do for going to work may look like a great deal for them, but would you swap your life for theirs? Personally I wouldn't. The people that are using the benefits system are largely those with few options in life. There are exceptions of course, and a minority who make false claims, but the benefits system, along with the NHS, is something we should be very proud of in this country. It provides support to people when they need it to allow them to live a reasonable lifestyle.

Ultimately this was a TV programme, it was meant to be inflammatory and provoke a furious response. I remember the Twitter response at the time the Romanian had the cheek to say his life was better in Romania than it was being exploited in the UK. If you could have taken every person who replied 'well f*ck off back to Romania then' and replaced them with a migrant with a work ethic, then Britain would be a much better country overnight.

With the very, very rich, it is only greed that compels them to hide their money and use every loophole they can find. They already earn enough to live a comfortable lifestyle but want to earn every extra penny they can. When you consider that Vodafone alone could fund all benefit fraud and the vast majority of austerity cuts with the tax money they owe, then you realise how ridiculous it is. The simple solution is to make the tax legislation much simpler, so there are no loopholes to exploit, but the people who make the laws are those who are benefitting from them, so there is no incentive to.