The problem(s) with English football...

[EmetEdadsBeard]

Not read through the thread but the answer is-MONEY. Kids getting fortunes when they've done nowt, players (often VERY ordinary) being millionaires in their 20s. They're not hungry enough, and ANY player who is a bit better than ordinary is lauded as 'World class' (surely the most over used phrase in English football) and the player believes the hype ( they, on average, aren't the sharpest knives in the box). Also PACE! The vast majority of English footballers are sprinters in football boots. Alan Hansen has a lot to answer for for this, its all he ever talked about. Not skill or nous or reading of the game. It was pace. without it players were nothing.
The African/Brazilian/Argentinian players who are currently plying their trade are largely from massively poor backgrounds and its a way out of abject poverty. Compare that with your average English player who's been on the books of Dirty L**ds since they were 6 and their stupid parents have mortgaged their existence (or more likely spent their benefit) because 'My lads gonna play for England'.

Greg Dykes ambitious speech was the biggest load of tosh I've heard for decades, we'll not get to a world cup final in my kids lifetimes, let alone mine, and then win it? No chance.

Sorry, rant over.

[chunkygull]

well, without reading the thread you've hit the nail on the head and made 2 very similar points to some stuff i wrote, but you did it a lot more to the point.

absolutely 100% agree with what you have said.

wealth and status without actually acheiving anything. too much emphasise on pace and physicality, rather than talent and skill.

[EmetEdadsBeard]

I've thought of another one.

Foreigners. Now, I'm sure this one has been mentioned, but it's got nothing to do with Carlos Kickaball in the Premiershit.

About 4 or 5 years ago, Darlington signed a goalkeeper (when they were in the Conference). He was the Turks and Caicos Islands or Western Samoan or something like that International keeper. So what? You ask.
Well, that meant that a local (probably) up and coming young keeper didn't get a shot in a Conference side, and was maybe lost to the game. There's plenty of players like that around, lads who maybe were late developers (Ian Wright and Vinnie Jones both played in the top flight after trolling around non-league footy).
Kevin Keegan started at Pilkington Glass works SECOND team in Doncaster, Ray Clemence at Scunthorpe, Gordon Banks at Chesterfield and there's many many more who I can't think of who worked their way up to the top.

The foreigners in the lower leagues are doing just as much damage to the English game and Englands prospects as the ones at the top.

In my very honest opinion.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Ah good old Pilks Glass!

In addition to Emets case I would like to add managers to that list. Managers are to blame for stunting the career progression of non league and youth team players as far down as our level. Take Callum Ball, he's a half decent player but plays for Derby and he is going back there soon. Now i'm 100% certain that there are big strapping forward men with decent goalscoring records in non league and who would work 100 times harder than Ball just because he has been given an opportunity of being a pro footballer. Managers won't take risks, they'd rather sign a championship player on loan for a bit and if it goes t*ts up he doesn't look that much of an anus but should he chuck in a novice and it goes t*ts up then he will get some stick from the fans.

How many players have we signed from non league recently and how many got a decent run in the first team? How many of our youth team players have been given a really fair crack of the whip in the first team? So what is the point in a youth team and what is the point of a manager having an eye for a player when he just signs players he has had at other clubs and also random bang average ones on short term loans from clubs higher up? Why should Courtney Cameron for example be any better than a similar profile non league player just because he was at Aston Villa? I'm thinking there maybe a few out there who maybe would have preferred we signed a promising non leaguer than Cameron?

It is all about self preservation and most managers put saving their own skin ahead of bringing through and developing players and until that changes then it is an extra hurdle to jump.

[madgull]

Emet, agree with you on sprinters insofar as a lot of teams are made up by players of either speed, strength or size rather than skill.

However, completely disagree about the money one, yes the Premier League is highly paid, but Lionel Messi hasn't suddenly become crap because of his huge pay-packet, has he?

For the foreigners point, if our players are THAT good, then why aren't they playing in all the other leagues in the world? For the same reason that even if EVERY player in the Premiership is English, the national team still won't be any good. The style of football in England is now so far removed from the rest of the world that our players just aren't developed with the right attributes. I've said it before and I'll say it again, players like James Milner are basically meat heads who can bustle and put in a good shift, and perhaps one player like this in each team is needed, but when you have a whole team of players like this backed up by, as you so rightly put it, sprinters, with one technical player, then we're not going to get anywhere.

I was musing over the England game just now, and figured out that the England team is like the boxer Nikolai Valuev. Our pure physicality and power is enough to get us past opponents who aren't very good boxers (read: good technically), but as soon as we come up against somebody half-decent then we're just going to be out-boxed.

Like I said, we can cut foreigners all we want, we've been technically inferior for years; maybe if we learned from the foreign players in the Premiership and started to play more like them, we would get somewhere. Next time we lure over a Bergkamp, a Ginola, a Zola or when we're blessed with a Gascoigne or a Le Tissier, perhaps we should build a team around them and in their image, as passing, creative footballers, rather than have them as our 'flair player' and surround them with tosh. Just a thought.

[Gulliball]

The money issue is that players who are 17 and have never made a professional appearance can be earning £5 000 to £10 000 per week and living the glamourous lifestyle without achieving anything. If you already have a house, car, diamond watch and girls falling over you then there is less motivation to achieve more and a greater distraction from working hard to develop further. The other problem with this is that the most promising teenagers are moving to Premiership sides because it sets them up financially for life, but they have almost no chance of first team football, because they are competing against other promising youngsters for recognition, and with managers getting sacked for having a poor month they are not risking young players in the first team.

The best 17-21 year olds should be playing first team football every week, and the reality is that hardly any are. The FA have acknowledged the huge problems with coaching and development of young players, and a lot of the recent initiatives over the last year will be seen in the next 10 years, but with the new rules for poaching teenagers the future will just see even more teenagers hoovered up by the top academies and then released at 21 to go on trial at clubs they should have been playing for 3 years earlier.

I agree that the amount of foreign players has no connection with the strength of the England team, but as fewer and fewer young players get first team football, their development will suffer.

[cambgull]

What about a ruling where rather than having X amount of English players in your team, you must have X amount of under 21s in your team. It means clubs are forced to include upcoming young players and any sensible manager will rotate them so that any one position is not weaker.

[AustrianAndyGull]

A country of over 50 million people and the best choice for last night was Ricky Lambert!

If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious!!

We're going to Brazil, we're going to Brazil YOU'RE NOT! YOU'RE NOT!

The other thing that makes me p*ss my pants is everyone saying oh well we've got two home games against Poland and Montenegro so 6 points will see us through! HAVE THEY NOT F*CKING LEARNED ANYTHING?!! Bearing in mind England have deteriorated over the years and Poland and Montenegro have improved then it would be fair to say that the difference between the sides is now not huge yet they are still 'assuming' 6 points should be a formality! Unbelievable!

There may be a shock in store I fancy.......

[AustrianAndyGull]

The arrogance still flows when there is no evidence to suggest they should have any. That is why many people don't want the England team to do well.

[happytorq]

Bearing in mind England have deteriorated over the years and Poland and Montenegro have improved then it would be fair to say that the difference between the sides is now not huge yet they are still 'assuming' 6 points should be a formality! Unbelievable!

While the red bit is true, the bit in blue is less obvious. Poland were abject in the Euros last year, and in this campaign they only teams they've beaten are San Marino (twice) and Moldova, at home. Montenegro are better, of course, but at this stage even 4 points would probably see England to at least the play-offs. It's theoretically possible to finish second in the group even if they draw the two remaining games.

[chunkygull]

Why were there players in the England squad who have hardly played for their club all season or not played much recently through injury or have played and their form has been poor.

The England midfield picks were littered with all 3 of these this week. There were a couple of call-ups that impressed me but all I can ask is in a bigger squad than normal why no Tom Huddlestone. The lad is a presence in the middle of the park, indeed bossing this position, he can play that so called holding role ( ) and ticks the team over. Whenever i have seen him play, including in his Spurs days, he rarely loses or wastes a ball, his range of passing is fantastic, he either keeps it simple and neat or he can ping a great long ball, his free kicks and set piece deliveries are pretty awesome at times also.

There has been much criticism at Hodgson this week for picking players on past rep or because of who they play for. Tom Cleverly is a name brought up time and time again. Apparently there was an online petition started this week asking for Cleverly to be omitted from the England squad because he should not be there. There were 15000 signatures in no time. Granted I have no idea what Hodgson sees and why Cleverly would get in over Huddlestone, however the petition was harsh and a true England fan would not sign it and support whatever player who is asked to represent the 3 lions.

I know its all about players who fit and can do a job in certain positions, Huddlestone has Gerrard, Wilshere, Barclay, Henderson and Carrick ahead of him and a few of them are not a shoe in, but what does a player like Cleverly bring to the middle of the park. On form and consistency I would put Huddlestone ahead of all but Gerrard, maybe he just isnt a big enough name.

I can see why fans are frustrated at some selections it is as if players who play for a big club are picked over players who are from so-called smaller clubs. However surely this isnt right because Roy has picked 3 lads from Southampton, one of which Adam lallana has impressed me in the last few games, especially wednesdays vs Denmark.

Anyway, not long now - COME ON ENGLAND!

[PhilGull]

I think the #home grown' rule is doing more bad than good at the moment. It seems silly that when Cesc Fabregas returns to Arsenal in the summer he will count towards their home-grown quota. Despite being born in Spain and playing at every level for the Spanish national team.
They should I think scrap the minimum number of home-grown players in the 25 man squad and replace it with a new rule. A minimum of 4 (or 5 or 6 or 7 or however many) players eligible to play for England (or whatever UEFA league the team is playing in) in the match day squad of 18.