Mansell signs for Bristol Rovers

[Burnhamgull]

[+mustard+]

Burnhamgull have you watched Burnham play this season and do you know Andy Nelson?or Neilson not sure but Andy was a good player.

Yes I thought Mansell would stay but he will be playing at Plainmoor I think I was right in a way. Mansell was no worse than any of the other players last season and as I pointed out I think he struggles in a bad side by trying to hard and shines in a good side and should do well next season.
To Dave
You've got the directors to blame for relegation not the players or manager because they put the manager in place and it's their responsibility to appoint the managers. Half the players would not have been here if you had a good manager at the start of last season. I think it's time to draw a line under last season now.

[Greybeardedgull]

Just interested in a couple of points addressed by Jeff and would appreciate his explanations as to how someone can have such double standards.

Jeff you state on the 'More out than in' thread something similar how we now have to ship out Hawley, Benyon & Tonge.

You then state on the 'Mansell to Bristol' thread that Harding will hopefully be the first name on the team sheet as his past record with some other none discript teams prove he is better than the sh1te we saw from him last season.

Dale Tonge has won promotion to the Championship with Barnsley. He also won promotion to League 1 with Rotherham United.

My question is this:
If you are willing to give Ben Harding another chance after a very poor season why not Tonge?

I'll just add this. Both Harding and Tonge were injured for most of last season. The difference is Harding didn't play, Tonge did. Hopefully they will both reach their full potential for us next season.

[Jeff]

Just interested in a couple of points addressed by Jeff and would appreciate his explanations as to how someone can have such double standards.

Jeff you state on the 'More out than in' thread something similar how we now have to ship out Hawley, Benyon & Tonge.

You then state on the 'Mansell to Bristol' thread that Harding will hopefully be the first name on the team sheet as his past record with some other none discript teams prove he is better than the sh1te we saw from him last season.

Dale Tonge has won promotion to the Championship with Barnsley. He also won promotion to League 1 with Rotherham United.

My question is this:
If you are willing to give Ben Harding another chance after a very poor season why not Tonge?

I'll just add this. Both Harding and Tonge were injured for most of last season. The difference is Harding didn't play, Tonge did. Hopefully they will both reach their full potential for us next season.

I'm not sure I appreciate the tone of the first paragraph, but given its the written rather than spoken word I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Quite simply, we were talking about Midfielders on the "Mansell to Bristol" thread - hence the reference to Harding (which was in direct reply to another poster).

Tonge is more than welcome to prove myself - and everyone else - wrong and put in a blinding effort next season. My understanding however is that he is amongst the better paid players at the club (I base this on the comments from other posters who frequently refer to Hawley and Tonge's wages being the more important ones to rid us of), and if that is the case we can get better value for money elsewhere.

For what its worth, I don't agree with your point that both Harding and Tonge were injured for most of last season. Tonge played 39 games, Harding 19. A huge difference.

But I will agree that if both are still with us next season, I want them to fulfill their full potential. Neither can hand-on-heart say they did that last season.

[Greybeardedgull]

Thanks for your quick reply and excellent explanation of your accounts. By the way, there was no offence or intent meant by the tone of my opening paragraph. I simply meant that it appears to be a blatant example of double standards where one player who was crap being welcomed to prove himself next season and the other who wasn't much better being told to clear off.

Therefore you can give it the benefit of what ever you wish as I dont care a toss.

And yes I agree, there is a huge difference in the games they played considering that Tonge was injured throughout the season but played on which to me proves his commitment to the club and will to play despite it costing him his best form.

[PlainmoorRoar]

Thanks for your quick reply and excellent explanation of your accounts. By the way, there was no offence or intent meant by the tone of my opening paragraph. I simply meant that it appears to be a blatant example of double standards where one player who was crap being welcomed to prove himself next season and the other who wasn't much better being told to clear off.

Therefore you can give it the benefit of what ever you wish as I dont care a toss.

And yes I agree, there is a huge difference in the games they played considering that Tonge was injured throughout the season but played on which to me proves his commitment to the club and will to play despite it costing him his best form.

You might not give a toss to Jeffs reply which answered all your questions but tonge injured the whole season?

Do me a favour he had a very crap season, he's on a very good wage and so far hasn't earnt it.

Like you say he was in a successful Rotherham team, hopefully CH can sort him out

[Greybeardedgull]

Tonge was injured throughout last season, this cost him his fitness, his form, his confidence and ultimately his performances, fact. This however was not the point of my inquiry as players regularly get injured or lose form.

My point is simply this, why is one player being given a second chance by certain fans when another who was prepared to soldier on despite injury is slated.

As for wages, a qualified plumber earns more than any of our players.

[Burnhamgull]

Burnhamgull have you watched Burnham play this season and do you know Andy Nelson?or Neilson not sure but Andy was a good player.

Nope, too busy following the Gulls.

[Jeff]

Tonge was injured throughout last season, this cost him his fitness, his form, his confidence and ultimately his performances, fact. This however was not the point of my inquiry as players regularly get injured or lose form.

My point is simply this, why is one player being given a second chance by certain fans when another who was prepared to soldier on despite injury is slated.

As for wages, a qualified plumber earns more than any of our players.

You're labouring this point a bit now. The only reason Harding was mentioned specifically in my post was because his role was brought up by another poster - appropriately enough on a thread about Midfielders.

I can guarantee you that if any of the transfer listed players get places into the starting XI they will be given as much support as anyone else, as all any of us want on here is for TUFC to succeed. If Hawley suddenly turns into a 20 goals season striker, or Tonge becomes the best Right Back in the division then all will be forgotten.

You seem to be privvy to information regarding Tonge's fitness that is unknown to the rest of the fan base, so I can see why your viewpoint might be biased but regardless of whether it was down to injury or ability, you surely cannot deny that Tonge (as well as Cooper, Hawley, Harding, Benyon) has some making up to do in the eyes of the fans?

[ferrarilover]

Harding played 9.5 league games before he became injured last season. He was, by any objective standard, pretty good in 3 of them and it was the three immediately before he because injured (and he was the best player on the park by a country mile in the match against York in which he was injured).
He looked pretty bad in those first half dozen matches, but certainly found his feet after that poor start. For an evidential example of how this transformation can end, see the TUFC career of Brian Saah.

Tongue had, by those same objective standards, a poor season all in. However, unlike Harding, Tongue played virtually every match and failed to impress in pretty much all of them.

I'm struggling to think of a decent metaphor, but I'm sure someone else will do one.

The difference between the relative situations is that, having had a good look at Tongue, he seems not to fit here. Perhaps he'll come good. As you rightly mention, he's an excellent pedegree, but he wouldn't be anything like the first (or last) player to fail spectacularly at one particular club, while being quite excellent for everyone else.
Harding is being judged in entirely different circumstances and it is for that reason that it is perfectly reasonable for Jeff (or anyone else) to be happy to have a second look at Harding (of whom I was extremely critical initially, but am now minded that he is likely a very good player) while not prepared to extend a similar courtesy to Tongue.

It's a shame, about Tongue. He's an extremely likeable fellow with a quick wit and keen mind. I know he's not had the best time here, but, if we could reduce his wage to a sensible level, I'd be keen to keep him for his influence and intelligence in the dressing room and his experience of a promotion challenge.

Matt.

[Rjc70]

I can see why Hargreaves is interested in converting Thompson to a right back. Like most, I felt Tonge had a poor season, often appearing to run through treacle. Never seen it written before that he was playing through injury. I have my doubts. If so, another poorly managed aspect of the season. We move on. I thought ages ago someone on here said Tonge was off to Hartlepool. Can GBG shed any light on this and where it's at? He'll get my support if he is in the starting eleven, but he'll need a few decent performances early doors to banish the memory of last season for quite a few amongst the crowd, I'd've thought. Good luck to him.

[Greybeardedgull]

Oh I agree with you entirely on that one, we got relegated. The whole team got relegated though not just the scapegoats that are been hounded out.

My opinion is that if we'd been hammered 4 and 5 every week, then ye blame the defence for relegation, but we didn't and I don't.

If the midfield had created more then the attack may have scored more and we may have stayed up. We were relegated because we had and still don't have a midfield. Yet the defence in Nico and now Tonge are blamed and the attack in Hawley and Benners are blamed.





I

[Rjc70]

Oh I agree with you entirely on that one, we got relegated. The whole team got relegated though not just the scapegoats that are been hounded out.

My opinion is that if we'd been hammered 4 and 5 every week, then ye blame the defence for relegation, but we didn't and I don't.

If the midfield had created more then the attack may have scored more and we may have stayed up. We were relegated because we had and still don't have a midfield. Yet the defence in Nico and now Tonge are blamed and the attack in Hawley and Benners are blamed.
I

Quite agree that the midfield created very little. Young in, Mansell out is some cracking business. Cameron got much better toward the end of the season and Goodwin showed a lot of spark, but on the whole a poor season in terms of creativity from the middle of the park. Best midfield showing for me was away at Wimbledon with Lathrope the anchor in a central midfield trio. We created much that day. I was surprised it wasn't tried after that, although Lathrope and Labadie as a two worked well away at Pompey not long after. Perhaps that's why we went back to the 2 man before Labadie's biting incident.

The four players you mention, though, GBG, all had disappointing seasons by any fair assessment. And Mansell, the original subject matter of the thread, was dreadful all season.

[IlshamSchmilsham]

Spot on Rjc. I'm convinced that our midfield was the weakest link throughout last season. I am not persuaded that each of the many forwards who struggled to score goals was terminally useless - surely more than a coincidence - or that the sequence of 1-0 defeats, particularly towards the end of the season, was solely the fault of a poor defence. I'm sorry to say that our midfield 2 (or 3, or 4) neither created sufficient chances for our attackers nor provided adequate support for our defenders. Much though it pains me to say so, the weakest link within a very poor midfield structure was Lee Mansell. That may be because he was trying too hard to compensate for the inadequacies of those around him, or the system within which he was being asked to operate, but to suggest (as some or doing) that CH has been unwise to offload him flies in the face of the reality of last seasons's experience - sentiment, of course, is another matter entirely. But sentiment doesn't put points on the board.

Dave B

[brucie]

Hargreaves didn't actually offload him though - he offered him new terms which Mansell chose not to take. Thats hardly the same thing.