Chris Hargreaves' v Paul Buckle's Conference teams

[tommyg]

It is easy to look back on previous teams through rose tinted spectacles

Yes they were a crucially important team in terms of stopping the rot, which was no mean feat , but they were hardly all conquering

Remember that in the first Conference season, it was only a very late Tim Sills penalty at home to Northwich Victoria that(perhaps) saved Buckles skin

Even in our 2nd promotion season, we won just half of our games....not sure how many teams can say they got promoted with a 50% win rate?

Whilst this team is undoubtedly young, it has the flair and confidence needed to win matches....so far we have won 60% of our matches, and I would expect that figure to be about the same at the end of the season, giving us 28 wins, whilst Buckles team won 23 in their 2nd season

That late Sills penalty against Northwich was actually in our second and promotion-winning season. As you mention, it may have saved Buckle's job as there were rumours swirling around that he would be sacked if we failed to win that match. It was a huge moment in our history as it was the catalyst for a 17-game unbeaten run - who knows what would have happened had Sills lost his nerve.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if we win 28 games this season. I've been very impressed so far but don't think we've had the toughest of starts. If you look at the table, we've only played two teams in the top half - Gateshead and Woking. If we're in a similar position at the end of November then I may change my mind. We're reliant on a few players - Young and Bowman are the obvious ones, but Richards and O'Achie are also becoming key members of the team who we would struggle to replace. Even someone like Tonge is very important as we don't have another natural right-back in the squad.

[hector]

ON paper, I think Buckle's team looks better in defence, with Poke/Bevan in goal and Nicholson, Ellis, Robertson, Todd, Woods, Mansell amongst the defenders used.

Saying that, MacDonald is similar to Robertson, Downes to Todd/Woods, so there are many similarities.

Whilst Sills was superb at Conference level, he struggled at FL level, yet I think Bowman would do quite well if went up. For Lee Phillips, the Conference was the absolute summit of his powers, whether that is true of O'Achie, or could he go higher?

Midfield pairing of Young/Richards is the best we have had for years and I think the young wingers we have are probably more creative than e.g Carlisle. I think Buckle's team probably had more strength in depth - for a while Nicky Wroe couldn't get into the team - and Buckle probably had more money but I remember my friends and I thinking what a find Buckle was as manager, at around this time of his first season. If that was true, then surely the same is about Hargreaves.

[Lloyder5]

Zebroski brought a lot to Buckle's team. Hargreaves' is about potential. Buckle's lot achieving promotion were like England rugby world cup winners, most had reach their peak and needed to move on.

[ferrarilover]

As a footballer, Bowman outdoes Sills by a country mile. Thing was, that we set up our whole team and ethos around giving Sills what he wanted: the ball in the air, anywhere in the box. Any other goals which happened to result were coincidental.
This side plays better football, because that's how they're set up. That's how we're doing what we're doing.

When racing drivers go out on circuit, they aim not to be fast, but to be smooth. Being smooth has its own benefits, but it's primary byproduct is speed. In exactly the same vein, goals are the primary byproduct of good football (followed shortly by clean sheets). It is for this reason that, in a recent thread, I said that this team would beat the 2007 side. I believe that our defence today would have the measure of the overwhelming majority of the 2007 attacking threat. The only question which remains in my mind is whether we'd have enough today up front to convert a chance. We'd create some, no doubt, but I don't think any of them would be in the "genuinely unmissable" camp. Are either of our strikers or any of our other players good enough to find a really good finish to win the match? I'd say in a one-off game, it's a coin toss, they either will or they won't. Over a 3 or 5 game series, I think today's side would come out on top. It'd be close, very close, but I think we'd do it.

I will add, that this summation is based on the 2014 side as it is today. I am certain there is more to come from this group. Richards will improve, Ajala will learn when to sow and when to reap, Big Mac will improve with time, O'Archie is learning every day, both in himself and in his partnership with Bowman. God only knows what Youngy could achieve. Exciting times ahead.

Matt.

[Lloyder5]

But not smooth yet. At the same stage of its first season, Buckle's team would have beaten this one. But that was before PB' s famed man management skills kicked in. They certainly would have dispatched Dover today. But it is the potential of the 2014 boys that is exciting.

[exilegull]

Zebroski brought a lot to Buckle's team. Hargreaves' is about potential. Buckle's lot achieving promotion were like England rugby world cup winners, most had reach their peak and needed to move on.

I was reading this thread thinking the same. Cameron and Ajala are very talented but Zebroski was extremely effective with a lot of end product. Beyond that the experience of Sills and Hargreaves were also very important to Buckles team. Beyond that I don't see much difference - I think 5/6 of each would be the contained withings a first choice combined 11 and it would be a very good side.

[gurneygibbs23]

Who compared Downes to todd! Angus mcdonald is basically Toddy mark 2, a scrappy gutsy centre back who has no ability with his feet whatsoever!


Really hard to say, but ill try put a best XI from the 2.

Poke
Mansell(his best position!) Robertson Downes Nicho
Carlisle Young Hargreaves
Zebroski Sills Bowman

Poke's conference performances were excellent, Mansell(barring the 13 goal season, was only decent at rb for us, and i thought he did well there and in lge 2 for awhile),
Robertson was solid generally throughout his tufc career, Downes is better than Todd by miles, Nicho obviously.
Carlisle and Hargreaves were great servants and although not overly talented, they came up with crucial goals. Young is clearly a brilliant player.
Zebs scored goals and always looked above conf level, Sills a fantastic talisman who was a heading machine. Bowman looks to be a goalscorer and has had some good games so far.

[tommyg]

Going slightly off topic but disagree with the post above regarding MacDonald's ability on the ball. I've seen him play a few nice cross-field passes this season and would argue he's better in possession than Downes, whose attributes closely match Todd's.

[Gulliball]

Looks like a fun game.

Poke

Mansell - Ellis - Pearce - Nicholson

Zebroski - Young - Hargreaves - Cameron

Sills - Bowman

Makes it 7-4 to the old boys. Not sure that Sills and Bowman would work as a pairing, but as they don't actually have to do it, it can happily be ignored. They're doing pretty well at the moment, but it's still hard to put any of the current back 5 into the team (other than Pearce, who ironically can't even get into our team at the moment).

At the ages they all were when joining us, I think this side would be right at the top end of League 2. Compare that with the last side to get promoted from League 2.

Van Heusden/Dearden

Canoville - Woods - Taylor - McGlinchey

Fowler - Russell - Hockley - Hill

Graham - Gritton/Kuffour

Who would then be in the best line-up?

Poke

Mansell - Ellis - Taylor - McGlinchey

Zebroski - Russell - Hargreaves - Hill

Graham - Kuffour

6 really old boys and 5 from the Conference, although with so many good players it's just personal preference. We'd need a Sills/Gritton/Bowman presence at times.

Interesting to see that when you mix the sides, we've had loads of great centre backs, two great left backs, but no stand out right back. Gives me hope for the current season that we can have a new legendary side without big names in every position.

[Scott Brehaut]

Poke

Mansell - Ellis - Taylor - McGlinchey

Zebroski - Russell - Hargreaves - Hill

Graham - Kuffour

6 really old boys and 5 from the Conference, although with so many good players it's just personal preference. We'd need a Sills/Gritton/Bowman presence at times.

Interesting to see that when you mix the sides, we've had loads of great centre backs, two great left backs, but no stand out right back. Gives me hope for the current season that we can have a new legendary side without big names in every position.

I like the look of that team, but I'd be wanting to try and accommodate Wayne Carlisle somewhere (obviously on the wing), but not sure who I would remove. Possibly remove Joe, replace up front with Zebs and have Wayne on the right.

[Scott Brehaut]

Ignore that - just realised that you were comparing two different sides.

Ooops :Oops:

[tomogull]

Going slightly off topic but disagree with the post above regarding MacDonald's ability on the ball. I've seen him play a few nice cross-field passes this season and would argue he's better in possession than Downes, whose attributes closely match Todd's.

Exactly my thoughts when I read the post about Angus' ability on the ball. There was little wrong with his distribution yesterday. He is developing into a very good central defender (benefiting from Lee Hodges coaching maybe?). He just has to avoid being dragged into 'handbags' scraps.

[ferrarilover]

Manse at RB? How do you people know so little about the game you watch every week? He was utter, utter tripe at RB. Might as well have made him head chef or Chairman. Baffling.

Matt.

[tomogull]

Manse at RB? How do you people know so little about the game you watch every week? He was utter, utter tripe at RB. Might as well have made him head chef or Chairman. Baffling. Matt.

Okay Matt - you name a better right back. Don't name Canoville 'cos he was good when he was in the mood but most times he looked as if he couldn't be ars*d and disappeared into obscurity when he left Plainmoor (as it was called when he was a United player ........ )

[chunkygull]

Manse at RB? How do you people know so little about the game you watch every week? He was utter, utter tripe at RB. Might as well have made him head chef or Chairman. Baffling.

Matt.

He wasnt much better in midfield, but he has to be shoehorned in somewhere coz' he's Lee mansell. :}