Hi,
I rarely post, not sure why but I enjoy reading the forum... most of the time!
It worries me that three players, Chaps, Pearce and Cameron all failed to warm-up (if that is the right terminology) at half time. Two of them remained seated, the other did a few tricks with the ball and then sat down. Aaron Downes believe it or not has a terrible attitude, as does Bowman who clearly is completely out of form at the moment.
You could argue that Bowman has some desire to be at the club being a new signing but it is very obvious both on and off the pitch that Downes and Pearce both want to leave. I remember finding a tweet many moons back almost of desperation from our very own Tom Cruise, begging for trials here, there, anywhere... According to a freedom of information request Dale Tonge is in the top three earners at the club... mmm
I wanted to also quickly mention our young goalkeeper who did makes some good stops but who also should have claimed the corner and done better with the parry leading to the second goal. I am no Martin Rice fan (mainly due to the lack of intelligence the guy has) but to say Seabright is a revalation would be premature at best.
Anyways, moving on to the midfield, I think the manager (who I so want to do well for TUFC) made a bad error in this department. Without going on and on, you decide, one less midfield signing and a full back instead or even a loan fullback? or just a squad full of midfielders, and short ones at that.
But... it all boils down to attitude, funny how when we are winning and the players are getting their win bonuses, goal bonuses and so on, everything is all merry. When you come across some tough teams made of players that barely get paid to play (they do exist in the conference) then expect a fight, in general unless the skill gap is huge, many an upset will happen. We can not just pay off expensive contracts and sign 11 Luke Youngs, but we can as a set of fans make it pretty damn obvious that it is embarrassing not when we lose but when our players let us, themselves and most importantly the club down.
Shame on some of you, I hope my children grow up with much better role models!
The problem is attitude... and...
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yellowchipmonk
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leetufc
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I think you hit on some good points regarding attitude of the players.
Cameron and Chappell have both been very hit and miss since they have played for us, and I think attitude probably does have something to do with this. Bowman in recent games has been very quick to blame others on the pitch for his own shortcomings which is not a good sign.
However I can also see it from some of these guys point of view. Tonge, Chaps and Downes are all transfer listed, and it must be difficult for them to be motivated fully when you know the club wants rid.
I am not sure when the tweet you refer to with Cruise was but I can understand this to a certain extent depending on when it was- he was out of contract here over the summer and we have only given him a short term deal.
I personally don't think CH has made bad decisions in his midfield signings. Young and Richards were necessary and are our first choice pairing. Once Harding got injured he brought in Wakefield on loan which made sense as cover. The only other midfielders that come to mind are Ajala and Briscoe. CH clearly doesn't rate Chappell and so wanted his own widemen, and Briscoe can also operate in a striker role as well. I don't think these signings were unnecessary, and CH was hampered at full back by having to continue with Tonge.
Cameron and Chappell have both been very hit and miss since they have played for us, and I think attitude probably does have something to do with this. Bowman in recent games has been very quick to blame others on the pitch for his own shortcomings which is not a good sign.
However I can also see it from some of these guys point of view. Tonge, Chaps and Downes are all transfer listed, and it must be difficult for them to be motivated fully when you know the club wants rid.
I am not sure when the tweet you refer to with Cruise was but I can understand this to a certain extent depending on when it was- he was out of contract here over the summer and we have only given him a short term deal.
I personally don't think CH has made bad decisions in his midfield signings. Young and Richards were necessary and are our first choice pairing. Once Harding got injured he brought in Wakefield on loan which made sense as cover. The only other midfielders that come to mind are Ajala and Briscoe. CH clearly doesn't rate Chappell and so wanted his own widemen, and Briscoe can also operate in a striker role as well. I don't think these signings were unnecessary, and CH was hampered at full back by having to continue with Tonge.
"I wanted to also quickly mention our young goalkeeper who did makes some good stops but who also should have claimed the corner and done better with the parry leading to the second goal. I am no Martin Rice fan (mainly due to the lack of intelligence the guy has) but to say Seabright is a revalation would be premature at best"
Totally agree!! he did ok but as we are told on here time and time again if the goalkeeper makes mistakes we will probably lose. I also thought he should have commanded his area for the 1st, the 2nd mmmmm..... Rice would have been hammered for that! I know his a young guy but that doesn't mean we have to now make him out to be some kind of hero.
Totally agree!! he did ok but as we are told on here time and time again if the goalkeeper makes mistakes we will probably lose. I also thought he should have commanded his area for the 1st, the 2nd mmmmm..... Rice would have been hammered for that! I know his a young guy but that doesn't mean we have to now make him out to be some kind of hero.
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MidDevon
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Our team is non-league. Our players are non-league. Our manager is non-league. With a very few exceptions you cannot go lower in football and find professional players at a club.....these players are clutching on by the skin of their teeth to a full time job in football.....being released from a club like Torquay means oblivion for that individual.
Our players are non-league and that means, in the main, they are not consistent enough to attract a league club. It's that simple and not necessarily down to bad attitudes
It's easy, when they put a bad shift in, that we blame a "will to win", personally I do not see that. All I see is a host of non-league players, who , in the main care deeply, but just are not good enough or perhaps in some case consistent enough.
Our players are non-league and that means, in the main, they are not consistent enough to attract a league club. It's that simple and not necessarily down to bad attitudes
It's easy, when they put a bad shift in, that we blame a "will to win", personally I do not see that. All I see is a host of non-league players, who , in the main care deeply, but just are not good enough or perhaps in some case consistent enough.
Seabright had a calm and assured debut and possesses good distribution.
With regard to the first goal, he does make the decision to stay on his line which many will not like, but I do not see that he would have been able to make a clean take or punch in that crowded six yard box and with the trajectory of that ball. Olejnik probably would have got something on it; Poke might have and might not have got something on it if we must have comparisons to other TUFC keepers. And it is only those that have said Rice would have been panned etc. who are really doing this. The two defenders nearest Scott, Tonge and MacDonald, offer nothing and he was entitled to expect them to make at least some sort of challenge. However, like Ofori-Acheampong and Downes, they were both static or at least not mobile enough to offer any sort of defence at that corner. It was appauling defending.
Whilst with the second one he may have got his angle slightly wrong such that he was unable to make a clean take, when the ball became unable to take cleanly by going hard to his right, the only thing left available to him was to get as strong a hand on it as possible to parry the shot away. We were unfortunate that it then lands at the feet of the worst player from a Torquay perspective, who is, of course, unmarked for his calm finish.
I'm not lionising the lad, but that was a decent debut and yes, those two saves in the first half showed top drawer reactions. He showed enough yesterday to believe he could and should be our number one in forthcoming matches. Praise where it's due is all you're seeing here.
With regard to the first goal, he does make the decision to stay on his line which many will not like, but I do not see that he would have been able to make a clean take or punch in that crowded six yard box and with the trajectory of that ball. Olejnik probably would have got something on it; Poke might have and might not have got something on it if we must have comparisons to other TUFC keepers. And it is only those that have said Rice would have been panned etc. who are really doing this. The two defenders nearest Scott, Tonge and MacDonald, offer nothing and he was entitled to expect them to make at least some sort of challenge. However, like Ofori-Acheampong and Downes, they were both static or at least not mobile enough to offer any sort of defence at that corner. It was appauling defending.
Whilst with the second one he may have got his angle slightly wrong such that he was unable to make a clean take, when the ball became unable to take cleanly by going hard to his right, the only thing left available to him was to get as strong a hand on it as possible to parry the shot away. We were unfortunate that it then lands at the feet of the worst player from a Torquay perspective, who is, of course, unmarked for his calm finish.
I'm not lionising the lad, but that was a decent debut and yes, those two saves in the first half showed top drawer reactions. He showed enough yesterday to believe he could and should be our number one in forthcoming matches. Praise where it's due is all you're seeing here.
Last edited by Rjc70 on 26 Oct 2014, 15:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Burnhamgull
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Maybe a few should focus on the football and not on the pyramid system that is Herbalife......
TUFC never fails to let its fanbase down.
27/08/18 - Time to step back from this shambles and focus on things in life that make me happy. TUFC doesn't.
27/08/18 - Time to step back from this shambles and focus on things in life that make me happy. TUFC doesn't.
The only subs I saw knocking the ball about at half time were Rice, Chaney and Harding. Like others, it seemed to me like very poor form for Pearce, Cameron and Chapell to be sat talking on the subs bench.
Can't recall if Yeoman was warming up or not? But I did think he'd put a bit of weight on since I last saw him. And not in a good way for a professional athlete. That said, I thought he looked reasonably lively when he came on.
Can't recall if Yeoman was warming up or not? But I did think he'd put a bit of weight on since I last saw him. And not in a good way for a professional athlete. That said, I thought he looked reasonably lively when he came on.
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ferrarilover
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How long has Torquay United been a public body? If you're going to lie, lie convincingly.
Matt.
Matt.
J5 said, "ferrarilover is 100% correct"
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Gullscorer
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It seems to me that most of the top managers in football have always possessed a degree of toughness and ruthlessness with which to assert their authority and retain the respect of the players, in addition to those qualities needed to motivate and inspire their players. Paul Buckle possessed this to some extent, and CH needs to acquire more of it if he wishes to emulate the success of his former boss.
Without this, efforts to build 'togetherness', loyalty, and a positive team spirit could be seen merely as attempts to create happy families and to achieve a level of popularity with the players which, while it may be partially successful, will ultimately dissipate energy and focus and result in a lack of respect for the manager and a lack of effort, commitment and loyalty to the team and to the club.
Such a poor attitude by players is not helped by the lack of opportunities to play proper competitive football for those who are not regular first team players. This is why it's essential for the club to have an official reserve team playing in a competitive competition or even in regular friendly matches during a season. This is even more important then a club's youth academy set-up, for the success of a professional football team during a season.
Without this, efforts to build 'togetherness', loyalty, and a positive team spirit could be seen merely as attempts to create happy families and to achieve a level of popularity with the players which, while it may be partially successful, will ultimately dissipate energy and focus and result in a lack of respect for the manager and a lack of effort, commitment and loyalty to the team and to the club.
Such a poor attitude by players is not helped by the lack of opportunities to play proper competitive football for those who are not regular first team players. This is why it's essential for the club to have an official reserve team playing in a competitive competition or even in regular friendly matches during a season. This is even more important then a club's youth academy set-up, for the success of a professional football team during a season.
Who and what are those comments directed at?ferrarilover wrote:How long has Torquay United been a public body? If you're going to lie, lie convincingly.
Matt.
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SuperNickyWroe
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without profusing to be inspector morse, I'd say you....................Rjc70 wrote: Who and what are those comments directed at?
Member of the Yorkshire Gulls Supporters Club - Sponsors of Lirak Hasani, 2024-2025
We now head Due South to all games!
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We now head Due South to all games!
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I did wonder, but am struggling to see what it relates to.SuperNickyWroe wrote: without profusing to be inspector morse, I'd say you....................
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PlainmoorRoar
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SuperNickyWroe wrote: without profusing to be inspector morse, I'd say you....................
probably refers to the OP about the wages
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Reckon you're right.PlainmoorRoar wrote: probably refers to the OP about the wages
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royalgull
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The problem is partly attitude, in terms of how can a side beat Wrexham, Woking and Grimsby away yet get get beat so meekly at Telford and Alfreton, that has to be attitude and mindset but this also comes with young, inexperienced and also poor players and we have all 3 within the squad.
The main reason I wanted to post (and this may be the last time actually) was about the goalkeeping and defensive situation. As many on this forum may or may not know Ricey is a personal friend of mine and has been for the last 6/7 years as such reading the forum over the last week or so has been particularly difficult, i've held back from saying anything because I don't particularly want to get involved in petty squabbling on here, I can't be arsed with it. Difficult to stomach and to an extent difficult to understand the mindset of our fans, i'm not using the word supporters because they aren't supporters. I knew this would happen at some point but not even I expected the level of vitriol, abuse and pure nastiness written about Ricey over the last week. This is a bloke who always gives his all for the club every day in training and when selected on a Saturday, a bloke who having got a chance last season and had to deal with the constant negativity managed to turn that around and produce a very good personal season in difficult circumstances and won an end of season award, who then carried that form into the start of this season winning us points against Southport, Dartford, Woking, among others before the recent difficult spell. You see the Sunderland supporters reaction to their goalkeeper after a couple of horrible days (far worse than Ricey's imo) of chanting his name off the pitch and getting behind him then look at ours, embarrassing. Especially towards a bloke who actually cares a bit about the club and has given in the main a decent level of performance over the last year unlike about 60% of this squad who are all on at least double his money who have done nothing ever for us yet at the first real chance to do so our fans have hammered him.
This still all manifests to 2 things, 1) Ricey being from Exeter and having played for them, because he really has a say in where he's born and brought up and then having the temerity of playing for his local side and 2) his first spell here which as someone highlighted before in terms of numbers of matches won when he played was actually reasonable and despite saving a pen at Wembley and playing a part in a decent cup run has never been forgiven for a dodgy game at Exeter.
I'm not denying he's had a difficult spell recently, how can anyone deny that? but the short term memories of some never ceases to amaze or disappoint me, whether or not you think he should be selected or not there is a way of putting it, personal abuse, absolutely laying into him at games or wishing one of our own players 'break his legs' seriously are some of you for real? You're a disgrace.
As well as being a friend of Ricey's I have an interest in Jordan as well, as part of my role with KZ Goalkeeping we sponsor both TUFC goalkeepers so I was pleased to see Jordan step in and do well on Saturday (whether or not you believe this my understanding is Jordan was always playing the cup matches this season anyway) but I agree with the post above, had Ricey done the same he'd have been slaughtered for both of the goals, just as he has been recently for some of the goals that weren't his fault, I even read someone criticising him for Grimsby's first goal, the witch-hunt that has surrounded Ricey these last few weeks like I said is just ridiculous, whoever plays in goal for us is going to struggle, why? because they will have one of if not the worst back 4 in our history in front of them. A team with no natural leaders who quite a few of them are still on the transfer list, a powder puff midfield, without doubt the two worst full backs we've ever had and a constantly changing constantly disappointing centre back combination. You've got Downes who has a mistake in him all the time, MacDonald who is reasonable but carrying injuries, the aforementioned dynamic duo at full back a disinterested Pearce and then Ricey even had the joys of Courtney Richards at centre half at Alfreton. There has been talk on here about the defence maybe not having confidence in the goalkeeper well it's a two way street and how can he have any confidence in that circus?
Goalkeeping is all about decision making it is 90% of the goalkeepers game, all of them can stop shots, all of them can catch footballs, nearly all of them can kick relatively well, what makes the difference is decisions. I don't blame Jordan for either goal on Saturday, he made a decision to stay for the first goal and when the box is loaded with 6'3 6'4 powerful giants it's not as easy to say well come and get it as Ben Foster and Julian Speroni found out in the Premier League on Saturday and once again our circus back 4 rather than being proactive and sensing danger were too slow and allowed the guy a tap in and then for the second Jordan has got a good hand on it, he's got relatively good distance on it but yet again we are 2nd to it and their guy scores.
I was at Telford and at half time I turned to my old man and said there is no chance in hell of this team winning promotion, although I did think we'd still win that day! There are no Branston's, no Hargreaves' no Todd's no Mansell's in this team. No winners, no leaders, no experienced older heads who can win a scrappy game 1-0 and we'll continually get rolled over by rubbish teams this season because this lot have got no guts, there are bits of talent within the group, Young is a good player (i even read stuff on here criticising him about going to Plymouth Saturday hahahaha - see point 1 above about Ricey), Bowman is the latest to get stick but I am convinced he can and will score goals at this level because he's a decent forward lacking a bit of confidence right now who is also still young, Richards like Young has talent but should be a squad player but we lack a Hargreaves type next to Young, despite my criticism of the back 4 I like MacDonald I think he has a chance and Briscoe has done ok recently and has a goal in him. After that you are scraping the barrel with this lot, if you don't have that mix of talent, guts, experience and everyone puling in the same direction you haven't got a chance. We don't have that.
The last week has seriously made me question a bit of my feeling towards TUFC and I think it's why I might take a step back away from the forum because it's here where this nonsense is at it's worst to be honest, where people can be faceless and not held account to what they say who would never ever have the balls to go up to him and say some of the stuff they write. Most of our fans are decent folk and it's because forums give the chance for the minority that maybe it's worse than it really is if that makes sense but even so I think it's probably time to step away from here.
The main reason I wanted to post (and this may be the last time actually) was about the goalkeeping and defensive situation. As many on this forum may or may not know Ricey is a personal friend of mine and has been for the last 6/7 years as such reading the forum over the last week or so has been particularly difficult, i've held back from saying anything because I don't particularly want to get involved in petty squabbling on here, I can't be arsed with it. Difficult to stomach and to an extent difficult to understand the mindset of our fans, i'm not using the word supporters because they aren't supporters. I knew this would happen at some point but not even I expected the level of vitriol, abuse and pure nastiness written about Ricey over the last week. This is a bloke who always gives his all for the club every day in training and when selected on a Saturday, a bloke who having got a chance last season and had to deal with the constant negativity managed to turn that around and produce a very good personal season in difficult circumstances and won an end of season award, who then carried that form into the start of this season winning us points against Southport, Dartford, Woking, among others before the recent difficult spell. You see the Sunderland supporters reaction to their goalkeeper after a couple of horrible days (far worse than Ricey's imo) of chanting his name off the pitch and getting behind him then look at ours, embarrassing. Especially towards a bloke who actually cares a bit about the club and has given in the main a decent level of performance over the last year unlike about 60% of this squad who are all on at least double his money who have done nothing ever for us yet at the first real chance to do so our fans have hammered him.
This still all manifests to 2 things, 1) Ricey being from Exeter and having played for them, because he really has a say in where he's born and brought up and then having the temerity of playing for his local side and 2) his first spell here which as someone highlighted before in terms of numbers of matches won when he played was actually reasonable and despite saving a pen at Wembley and playing a part in a decent cup run has never been forgiven for a dodgy game at Exeter.
I'm not denying he's had a difficult spell recently, how can anyone deny that? but the short term memories of some never ceases to amaze or disappoint me, whether or not you think he should be selected or not there is a way of putting it, personal abuse, absolutely laying into him at games or wishing one of our own players 'break his legs' seriously are some of you for real? You're a disgrace.
As well as being a friend of Ricey's I have an interest in Jordan as well, as part of my role with KZ Goalkeeping we sponsor both TUFC goalkeepers so I was pleased to see Jordan step in and do well on Saturday (whether or not you believe this my understanding is Jordan was always playing the cup matches this season anyway) but I agree with the post above, had Ricey done the same he'd have been slaughtered for both of the goals, just as he has been recently for some of the goals that weren't his fault, I even read someone criticising him for Grimsby's first goal, the witch-hunt that has surrounded Ricey these last few weeks like I said is just ridiculous, whoever plays in goal for us is going to struggle, why? because they will have one of if not the worst back 4 in our history in front of them. A team with no natural leaders who quite a few of them are still on the transfer list, a powder puff midfield, without doubt the two worst full backs we've ever had and a constantly changing constantly disappointing centre back combination. You've got Downes who has a mistake in him all the time, MacDonald who is reasonable but carrying injuries, the aforementioned dynamic duo at full back a disinterested Pearce and then Ricey even had the joys of Courtney Richards at centre half at Alfreton. There has been talk on here about the defence maybe not having confidence in the goalkeeper well it's a two way street and how can he have any confidence in that circus?
Goalkeeping is all about decision making it is 90% of the goalkeepers game, all of them can stop shots, all of them can catch footballs, nearly all of them can kick relatively well, what makes the difference is decisions. I don't blame Jordan for either goal on Saturday, he made a decision to stay for the first goal and when the box is loaded with 6'3 6'4 powerful giants it's not as easy to say well come and get it as Ben Foster and Julian Speroni found out in the Premier League on Saturday and once again our circus back 4 rather than being proactive and sensing danger were too slow and allowed the guy a tap in and then for the second Jordan has got a good hand on it, he's got relatively good distance on it but yet again we are 2nd to it and their guy scores.
I was at Telford and at half time I turned to my old man and said there is no chance in hell of this team winning promotion, although I did think we'd still win that day! There are no Branston's, no Hargreaves' no Todd's no Mansell's in this team. No winners, no leaders, no experienced older heads who can win a scrappy game 1-0 and we'll continually get rolled over by rubbish teams this season because this lot have got no guts, there are bits of talent within the group, Young is a good player (i even read stuff on here criticising him about going to Plymouth Saturday hahahaha - see point 1 above about Ricey), Bowman is the latest to get stick but I am convinced he can and will score goals at this level because he's a decent forward lacking a bit of confidence right now who is also still young, Richards like Young has talent but should be a squad player but we lack a Hargreaves type next to Young, despite my criticism of the back 4 I like MacDonald I think he has a chance and Briscoe has done ok recently and has a goal in him. After that you are scraping the barrel with this lot, if you don't have that mix of talent, guts, experience and everyone puling in the same direction you haven't got a chance. We don't have that.
The last week has seriously made me question a bit of my feeling towards TUFC and I think it's why I might take a step back away from the forum because it's here where this nonsense is at it's worst to be honest, where people can be faceless and not held account to what they say who would never ever have the balls to go up to him and say some of the stuff they write. Most of our fans are decent folk and it's because forums give the chance for the minority that maybe it's worse than it really is if that makes sense but even so I think it's probably time to step away from here.
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