Chester & Hartlepool

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 01 Feb 2018, 18:30

Yorkieandy wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 10:27 Torquay has holidaymakers of all ages all year round. Surely there could be offers advertised in hotels and holiday parks and tourist attractions for special holidaymaker deals etc and in return we give the establishments a free advert or two in the matchday programme throughout the course of a season? This has probably been done before no doubt so apologies if it has but i think a few extra quid could be made here if we are to be writing off the locals. What other choice do we have? It's an advantage over Barrrow for sure. Can't see many people heading to Barrow for their hols.

I know personally that i always look for a local game or two to go and watch wherever i am on holiday.

Most holidaymakers to Torbay are OAPs and people with young families who come for the beach. The former already has their own fan allegiances and certainly aren't going to rock up to Plainmoor to see NL level football, only real football fanatics will do that. The young families will also not come because of the sheer expense of taking 2/3 kids to a football match, at a low standard, with none of stars that the kids have grown up watching for free on TV. Holidaymakers aren't going to add more than a dozen onto the gate if you're lucky. They're also one and done, not the key to making a sustainable club.

The main key to making the club more of a success than it is now is to attract the local population who have never cared for the club and especially to attract those existing football fans who moved into the Bay and have other allegiances - essentially making them adopt the club as a 'Second club'.

merse btpir · Post by **merse btpir** » 01 Feb 2018, 22:52

Now Macclesfield's players have made it public the club have defaulted on their January pay and maybe that explains their fall from recent standards as regards the results they were producing........so add the Silkmen to Chester and Hartlepool who are struggling to finish the season without going into administration or even going out of business.
https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/off-the-pi ... 17748.html

MellowYellow · Post by **MellowYellow** » 02 Feb 2018, 00:21

SenorDingDong wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 18:30 The main key to making the club more of a success than it is now is to attract the local population who have never cared for the club

Success is the key. I reflect back to the 67 and 68 seasons under Frank O'Farell when the gates averaged 9,000 to see a successful (winning) team. Between 1970 and 1976 the managerial appointments of Jack Edwards and Malcom Musgrove resulted in teams with a worst win ratio than Kevin Nicholson and attendances plummeted to 3,000 and below. Attendances held steady until 1984 and the appointment of David Webb which saw our attendances stoop to as low as 1,240 in the 85' season with a win ratio of only 26% and to which we have never fully recovered.

Our attendances for non-league football of close to 2,000 is however testimony that there is a nucleus of local core support which can be built upon with success. A case in point is Lincoln City who attendance trend was consistently downward towards the 2,000 mark in the Conference league but with their success the trend has reversed and now they attract regular crowds of 9,000 and have the second highest away following in the league, something which bears testament to their fine start to life back in the Football League after a six year absence.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 02 Feb 2018, 20:18

Maccs players and staff are to be paid on Monday if the owner is to be believed. Citing an issue with the transferring of money from overseas as the reason why it wasn't.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 02 Feb 2018, 20:35

SenorDingDong wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 18:30 Most holidaymakers to Torbay are OAPs and people with young families who come for the beach. The former already has their own fan allegiances and certainly aren't going to rock up to Plainmoor to see NL level football, only real football fanatics will do that. The young families will also not come because of the sheer expense of taking 2/3 kids to a football match, at a low standard, with none of stars that the kids have grown up watching for free on TV. Holidaymakers aren't going to add more than a dozen onto the gate if you're lucky. They're also one and done, not the key to making a sustainable club.

The main key to making the club more of a success than it is now is to attract the local population who have never cared for the club and especially to attract those existing football fans who moved into the Bay and have other allegiances - essentially making them adopt the club as a 'Second club'.

All fair points senor. We could rope in a few holidaymakers like you say but it sounds like not the numbers required to have much of a positive impact.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 03 Feb 2018, 10:36

Yorkieandy wrote: 02 Feb 2018, 20:35
All fair points senor. We could rope in a few holidaymakers like you say but it sounds like not the numbers required to have much of a positive impact.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

It's a nice thought but one that never really works out in the long run. It reminds me a lot of when people spitball about whether Las Vegas could support an MLS team, the holidaymakers thing is always brought up - and Las Vegas gets far more tourists than Torbay :-o - but ultimately they're hard to attract, may only ever attend one match and aren't suitable for building a football club upon. The key is and always will be the local population.

Torbay actually isn't that badly done by in terms of it's catchment, if we became successful (ha) and drew people in from the South Hams and Teignbridge areas, there's 250k+ people there to attract, that's twice the catchment area of places like Blackburn - ignoring the demographics of the area and the way football clubs are the largest cultural symbol of many of the post industrial northern towns.

westyorkshiregull · Post by **westyorkshiregull** » 03 Feb 2018, 10:54

In my 35 years as a fan and going to school in torquay. I was always laughed at on the whole being a torquay fan. Remember man united fans laughing at me while they were boarding coaches going to old Trafford.
Could never understand the attitude

It's a decent catchment area per club I would think.

I live in batley west Yorkshire and a 30 mile radius has countless league clubs and non league ..leeds ...huddersfield ....sheffields ..rotherham...bradford...york and many more ....

Can't get my head around it...

Devon snobs if I'm honest and yes I am a Devonian but having spent half my life up north there is a difference

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 03 Feb 2018, 11:27

Around me within a 30 mile radius i have Chesterfield (really small town) who get around 5,000 fans generally, Rotherham, Sheff U, Sheff Weds, Derby, Forest, Notts County, Mansfield, Doncaster, Lincoln and Barnsley. Also a healthy smattering of non league sides which get ok crowds like Matlock, Buxton etc.

It's not an exact science the 'catchment area' argument as i've mentioned above, Chesterfield is a smaller town than Torquay and has huge clubs all around it yet they have been struggling for the past few seasons but still getting between 4 and 5,000 fans at the Prolapse. York have always hovered around the 3,000 mark regardless and the catchment area around them between the likes of Leeds, Middlesbrough and Hull is huge. Especially if you also account for the fact that Scarborough went bust over 10 years ago.

I wouldn't be sure but i think that Torquay's crowds when they had that brief sojourn into league 1 under Leroy weren't that much up on what they nornally were so although the catchment area is big, most people still wouldn't be interested in attending from the local area.

Burton are an interesting example too. Yes they do have stacks of big clubs around them which has an impact on fan numbers, but they still have plenty of empty spaces on the terraces at games even now when they are a Championship club playing the likes of Villa and Derby. Bearing in mind that they came from non league when Torquay were last in it and getting to the Championship you would have thought that locals would be falling over themselves to get in on the action, it just shows how the fanbase there hasn't really been able to grow as much as it would like and that is despite having huge Championship clubs coming to town every other week.

There is no easy answer and even if Torquay were to miraculously get into the Championship

then i don't see attendances skyrocketing even then because locals by and large don't seem to be interested. This is why i think a club like Torquay should work on the premise that it will always have a set number of regular fans and run themselves accordingly. Clubs like Accrington have proved this is the only way of having a sustainable football club and they have been astute enough to have been able to hold their own for years in a league where many clubs overstretch and fall by the wayside.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 03 Feb 2018, 16:01

SenorDingDong wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 10:36

It's a nice thought but one that never really works out in the long run. It reminds me a lot of when people spitball about whether Las Vegas could support an MLS team, the holidaymakers thing is always brought up - and Las Vegas gets far more tourists than Torbay :-o - but ultimately they're hard to attract, may only ever attend one match and aren't suitable for building a football club upon. The key is and always will be the local population.

Didn't stop them attracting the Oakland raiders.

SenorDingDong · Post by **SenorDingDong** » 03 Feb 2018, 18:17

Plainmoor78 wrote: 03 Feb 2018, 16:01 Didn't stop them attracting the Oakland raiders.

or the Golden Knights for that matter. I was talking about a few years back when it was viewed as unlikely that Vegas would get any of the 'Big Four' sports and MLS was their best shot.

DB57 · Post by **DB57** » 03 Feb 2018, 20:05

According to Jeff Stelling Dagenham and Redbridge are in financial difficulties as well. He speculated, a bit tongue in cheek I guess, that all the clubs that finish in the bottom four might avoid relegation.

westyorkshiregull · Post by **westyorkshiregull** » 03 Feb 2018, 21:39

Hope not that would confirm just how rotten football is makes me sick

DB57 · Post by **DB57** » 04 Feb 2018, 09:17

Couldn't agree more. Jeff Stelling's comments just highlighted the fact that football has got itself into a bizarre situation between the haves and the have nots. Nobody who truly loves the game would want to see that sort of scenario played out. I wouldn't want us to survive on that basis.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 04 Feb 2018, 09:28

It is alarming just how many clubs at all levels are having serious issues with their owners and cash flow. The rule of thumb should be don't spend more than you've got coming in which is a really simple concept yet many owners don't seem to understand this.

Then you have the owners just in it to asset strip or just to siphon money off then do a runner.

There are so many ways in which football clubs are run badly but sadly it seems to be increasing.

Plainmoor78 · Post by **Plainmoor78** » 05 Feb 2018, 02:36

I think we have to face up to reality here. When a club gets relegated from the football league to the national league they lose payments in the region of £600,000 to £800,000. And yet they continue to try and finance full time football.
Prior to 1987 and automatic promotion/relegation between the leagues when a club failed reelection it went part time. I think we have realise staying full time in the long terrm may not be realistic for a lot of the relegated clubs no matter which national division they are in.
Clubs try to stay full time because they see it as the only way to get back, but with so many other clubs seeking promotion and going full time it becomes increasingly difficult to challenge for promotion. Sooner or later something has to give.
The growth of full time sides in non league is only benefitting players agents. No matter the cock up Nicholson made assembling his squad this summer, he probably didn't have enough money anyway to assemble a competitive squad.

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