The real concern ....

[CP Gull]

... whilst at the moment we are inevitably wrapped up with genuine concerns about who the next Manager is going to be and what players/staff we are going to be left with next season the REAL bad news as far as I am concerned over this past couple of weeks is the staggering loss that we have made for the second year running.

In a nutshell we have posted a combined loss of £1.4 million over the two years to 30.6.2010 which based on an annual turnover of just over £2 million is really worrying. What is even more worrying is that these losses have been sustained at a time when the club has enjoyed (relative) success on the pitch with promotion (via a Play Off Final) back into the League and a couple of decent money spinning cup runs - where would we be without them?

As far as I am concerned the success on the pitch has not been mirrored with success off the pitch - in fact this season, despite getting to the Play Off Final has been beset with off field problems. The list is endless but the sacking of Colin Lee (and associated costs), the tragic and untimely loss of our main benefactor Paul Bristow (RIP), the Seale Hayne Training Facility debacle (if that's not too strong a word) given that it has been unusable for several months and will apparently cost a substantial amount of money to be "put right", the fiasco over the Crawley FA CUP tickets/turnstile arrangements, the ineligible player and point deduction, the sacking of the Club Secretary (yet to be officially replaced) , the ticketing arrangements for Old Trafford and the failure of the club to be able to deal with telephone requests for tickets, the failure of the club to communicate properly with the fans (and ST holders) over the development of the Grandstand and the delays in starting work which will inevitably cost the club money at some future stage in lost revenue and most recently the handling of the Paul Buckle/BRFC saga - the list is (almost) endless.

I will be forever grateful that the Board stepped in when thy did to rescue our club from oblivion - for that is pretty much what they did - but I find myself questioning what exactly is going on at TUFC at this moment in time? There will always be those that say ... but we are being run by successful businessmen , real supporters who genuinely have the interest of the club at heart ... and I wouldn't disagree with that in the slightest but they wouldn't be the first (or last) who have never got to grips with running a football club be they successful in their personal lives or not! You only need to look down the A38 to see what can happen if a tight rein isn't kept on things ... Paul Stapleton a successful businessman (an Accountant in fact) was Chairman of PAFC when they climbed the leagues and I can remember being envious of them in having a local person who seemed so switched on and seemed to be the "perfect" Chairman ... but mention his name now in the city of Plymouth and you will be met with derision at best ... and something much less polite at worst!

I am no different to any other fan I guess in that I always want the best for our club but that said I want some honesty as well and as a "business" (although its never really seen as that by its fans) the Board need to recognise that good communication with its customers is vital - sadly the new Board, despite all the good things it has done viz the pitch improvements, the professional management structure, the new training ground, the reintroduction of youth and reserve teams, the promotion back into the league, the development of the Gulls Nest, the improvements to the club shop, the impending development of the bew Grandsatand ... despite all these wonderful things for which I will always be eternally grateful still fails to communicate properly with the fans on matters that are so important to our football club!

The losses we have made over the last two trading years are quite simply unsustainable, particularly given that we have tragically lost the man who used to cover them ... we need to have some honesty from the board as to how they intend to take the club forward .... warts and all, as clearly they have made some costly mistakes in the recent past and we really dont want all the good work that HAS been done over the last FOUR years to be unravelled due to financial mismanagement and a scenario where we ended up back where we started - much like as has been the case at PAFC.

Rant over!

[Plymouth Gull]

Great post.

[andygull]

Jesus CP, that was heavy reading! But your concerns are justified. It is clear that there is room for improvement as regards the day to day running of the club and confusion over the future plans at Plainmoor but we've got no choice but to trust in the powers that be, despite events, facts and figures that highlight their incompetence at times. Could we go down the road of a club owned and run by the fans? Is that possible and what people would want?

[Southampton Gull]

Brilliantly thought out post, sums up my feelings 100%.

[Dutchgull]

A quick reply to that is there simply is not enough fans with the money, time and knowledge to step forward ala our "friends" over the Telegraph Hill. As Chris has so well put it its a big concern that there does not appear to be any leadership at the top and no sign of our club pushing forward. We are supposedly the Gulls but it seems to be many a gull is picking at the bones of Torquay United at the moment. Like someone else has said in a post elsewhere please can someone win the Euro milions and get us out of this mess !!

[Fonda]

The obvious problems the board would have in making a public statement about the state of the club and their plans ongoing, is that it not only alerts other teams to our plight, but it might very well persaude even less people to part with money for season tickets. 'We're skint, and will have to tighten our belts accordingly' is not the kind of positive, inspirational message potential customers are looking for. Like everybody else, i wish general communication from the club was improved, but there are certain things almost better left unsaid.

The main issue, as always is lack of numbers through the turnstiles. It seems evident the club is virtually unsustainable in it's current guise whilst averaging less than 2,500 for home games. It seems obvious there is only so much the club themselves can do to attract new supporters. We all now have to take some responsibility by dragging friends and colleagues along. The only way things will improve is through greater match-day revenue - or by selling our prized assets. I know which i'd prefer.

[Dave]

Fantastic post Chris,think all will agree,even my stalker will struggle to rip the p#ss out this post,for me the club needs a leader that should be he chairman,is he in command of the club?Not sure that he is,if your not up to it MR.Baker step aside.

[tommyg]

Excellent post, CP.

Has the combined £1.4m loss for the last two trading years been covered completely by the Bristows' generosity, or is some of this money borrowed?

[Dave]

The obvious problems the board would have in making a public statement about the state of the club and their plans ongoing, is that it not only alerts other teams to our plight, but it might very well persaude even less people to part with money for season tickets. 'We're skint, and will have to tighten our belts accordingly' is not the kind of positive, inspirational message potential customers are looking for. Like everybody else, i wish general communication from the club was improved, but there are certain things almost better left unsaid.

The main issue, as always is lack of numbers through the turnstiles. It seems evident the club is virtually unsustainable in it's current guise whilst averaging less than 2,500 for home games. It seems obvious there is only so much the club themselves can do to attract new supporters. We all now have to take some responsibility by dragging friends and colleagues along. The only way things will improve is through greater match-day revenue - or by selling our prized assets. I know which i'd prefer.

The Trouble is other clubs can download our accounts from compamies house website and know our plight anyway,i agree with you i would not want our club to wash its dirty cloths in public,a statement of reassurance would not go a miss,that these issue's are under control ,which is vital for our fans.

[Gulliball]

It depends how much of that is planned and covered, and how much is going to be 'debt' the club owes. But two huge losses in a row is going to be very tricky to turn around. We can't afford to lose money for much longer (if at all...). But I very much doubt we're going to be £700k better off next year to break even, are we?

[portugull]

Just read the Accounts. They are QUALIFYED by the Auditors. There are some very serious accounting irregularities whicw beg a lot of questions.Hope to post a detailed comment tomorrow because this is a crucial matter. It looks like a real shambles which should not happen in a business turning over £2million a year.

[SteveDeckchair]

Aren't some of the board accountants? Oh dear!

[Bigman]

please can someone win the Euro milions and get us out of this mess !!

I keep trying! Haven't checked last night's results yet, if this afternoon's Herald drops a story about a mystery new owner you'll know I've done alright

[basil75]

I think it's worth just pointing out that the two seasons on the accounts do not include the season that we've just had, just the 09/10 and 08/09 seasons- as I get the impression some believe they include last season.

There is no new information here regarding the losses - we already knew about the 600k+ loss from the 09/10 season from around this time last year and that there had been heavy investment to get us out the BSP in 08/09.

The only new and albeit interesting information is the break down of the accounts, but without knowing the detailed accounts of other league 2 clubs, this means nothing.

A word of caution for anyone that does compare accounts between clubs - they can be manipulated legally very easily and the methods used to calculate things like depreciation etc and what to include can vary wildly - so accounts will not be directly comparable.

[Behind-the-Gulls]

£1-4 million loss over two years-2008-2010.
£711,000 loss in 08/09;681,430 in 09/10.This included £101,547 pay-out to Colin Lee.
2009/10 -turnover increased by £100,000 to £2.15 million.
2010/11 losses "massively reduced" according to Chairman(may break even).Aiming to break-even next season and the one after that.
All losses "funded". by Cosortium."Minimal bank borrowings-strong cash position".
Financially sound,with Plainmoor Ltd continuing to back club.
"We are in a remarkably healthy position"-Chairman.
Given the situation as described will there be an announcement at the AGM(or when Manager appointed)that the Board are aiming for promotion next season and are prepared(whilst not jepoardising improved financial position) to back the new management team with an increased playing budget?